My Fishless Cycle (Add And Wait Method)

[LondonguyJ]

Welp there goes my 36day theory

It seems as though I'll be doing this cycle for a while because my N-bacs take roughly 23 hours to process down to nil and on the 24th I re-dose to 3ppm.

I wish I could give them a spirited team talk and tell them to double up their efforts and process within 12 hours but alas, they are invisible to the human eye

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, the N-Bacs behave pretty differently than the A-Bacs unfortunately. WD

 

[PDSimon]

Your estimation made me lol, I tried to do the same but in the end you'll realise there is no way under these methods of predicting anything. They will develop and sometimes hault progress when they please

 

[LondonguyJ]

Wishful thinking I guess

 

[waterdrop]

There was a very useful discussion by Bignose in the scientific section at one point about what the very best theoretical timing could be if the bacteria were dividing at a fixed perfect rate. I think it was 21 days. Maybe someone will find the link, it was an interesting read (perhaps you've seen it?)

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

The whole discussion was predicated on the idea that the bacteria could double their numbers in just less than a day and he ran two test tanks along side the numbers he was using to see if things worked out as predicted by the numbers. In his case it worked out fairly close to the prediction. He only ran the experiment using a-bac results and did not try to measure n-bac growth in the same experiment.

 

[LondonguyJ]

There was a very useful discussion by Bignose in the scientific section at one point about what the very best theoretical timing could be if the bacteria were dividing at a fixed perfect rate. I think it was 21 days. Maybe someone will find the link, it was an interesting read (perhaps you've seen it?)

~~waterdrop~~

No I haven't but I'd really like to take a look at it seeing as I should be getting a 180 or 240l as a present to myself near xmas

 

[LondonguyJ]

N-bacs have gone backwards

Processing down to 0.1 in 24 hours whereas before I was getting 0's

I missed dosing on day 35 and they have been that way since. I guess it's some form of bacterial protest or something to that effect

 

[waterdrop]

I would prefer to say "backswards" or "forwards" based on a week's data perhaps, rather than a day, since daily results should only be expected to be showing you the "jitter" in the graph. Does that make sense? Think of when you see a graph of real data the line is all jagged in little tiny ups and downs but the overall graph line has a slope or curve to it and you can see that its gradually going up or down.. etc.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LondonguyJ]

I would prefer to say "backswards" or "forwards" based on a week's data perhaps, rather than a day, since daily results should only be expected to be showing you the "jitter" in the graph. Does that make sense? Think of when you see a graph of real data the line is all jagged in little tiny ups and downs but the overall graph line has a slope or curve to it and you can see that its gradually going up or down.. etc.

~~waterdrop~~

So you're saying that overall, from my log the trend/graph line is heading down towards zero so I'm on the right track?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, as the "trend slope" is drawn through the dots that are graphed over time, you will always see the dots jitter around in real data like this. Its the slope that's important.

But let's get back to your fishless cycle. Technically you reached a double-zero day at Day 33 I think. That's the point you could have declared yourself to be in the 3rd phase and taken action to raise your concentration to 5ppm. You want to raise the challenge so the colonies will get bigger and more robust. I'd use the calculator to figure out a milliliter amount the equates to 4ppm and 5ppm and I'd up my dosing to 4ppm for a bit and then to 5ppm. This may get you some nitrite at 24 hours but that's ok. Your next big goal of course is to get the 5ppm clearing to zero within 12 hours (which is basically done) so you can start your qualification week.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[LondonguyJ]

Yes, as the "trend slope" is drawn through the dots that are graphed over time, you will always see the dots jitter around in real data like this. Its the slope that's important.

But let's get back to your fishless cycle. Technically you reached a double-zero day at Day 33 I think. That's the point you could have declared yourself to be in the 3rd phase and taken action to raise your concentration to 5ppm. You want to raise the challenge so the colonies will get bigger and more robust. I'd use the calculator to figure out a milliliter amount the equates to 4ppm and 5ppm and I'd up my dosing to 4ppm for a bit and then to 5ppm. This may get you some nitrite at 24 hours but that's ok. Your next big goal of course is to get the 5ppm clearing to zero within 12 hours (which is basically done) so you can start your qualification week.

~~waterdrop~~

Waterdrop why do you do this to me

I'm not sure what you mean in saying I should have started the next phase on day 33. From my understanding I've got to wait until the 3ppm processes inside 12 hours and then raise the dose in my qualifying week.

I have great news though...

Yesterday I hit 0 nitrites in 23 hours whereas previously it has always gone to 0 inside the last hour (Yup I test often.) Today my nitrites have gone to 0 3 hours before the 24 hour slot.

21 hours is a record for me! I was so astonished that I did 3 tests just to confirm

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, as the "trend slope" is drawn through the dots that are graphed over time, you will always see the dots jitter around in real data like this. Its the slope that's important.

But let's get back to your fishless cycle. Technically you reached a double-zero day at Day 33 I think. That's the point you could have declared yourself to be in the 3rd phase and taken action to raise your concentration to 5ppm. You want to raise the challenge so the colonies will get bigger and more robust. I'd use the calculator to figure out a milliliter amount the equates to 4ppm and 5ppm and I'd up my dosing to 4ppm for a bit and then to 5ppm. This may get you some nitrite at 24 hours but that's ok. Your next big goal of course is to get the 5ppm clearing to zero within 12 hours (which is basically done) so you can start your qualification week.

~~waterdrop~~

Waterdrop why do you do this to me

I'm not sure what you mean in saying I should have started the next phase on day 33. From my understanding I've got to wait until the 3ppm processes inside 12 hours and then raise the dose in my qualifying week.

I have great news though...

Yesterday I hit 0 nitrites in 23 hours whereas previously it has always gone to 0 inside the last hour (Yup I test often.) Today my nitrites have gone to 0 3 hours before the 24 hour slot.

21 hours is a record for me! I was so astonished that I did 3 tests just to confirm

Believe me, you want to begin easing the dose up to 5ppm now. The qualification week is only for when 5ppm has been fully processed to double-zeros in 12 hours.

What's the name of that child's game where everyone sits in the chairs and someone whispers a "message" to the person next to him and then they have to whisper it one at a time down the line until it finally comes back to the message originator and he finds its garbled?

I'm the one that coined the terms "qualification week" and the "3 phases" and now its like a little nightmare as I watch it come back to me with new little "rules" added, lol.

No harm done to your cycle though, both colonies still need to get big enough to handle 5ppm and they've each got enough food to be actively enlarging their biofilms, so the colonies beginning to see a larger food supply available a few days sooner or later won't matter much, just go ahead and do it now so it can get going.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[BethK]

Chinese Whispers

 

[waterdrop]

Thank you Beth, I think I want to come to UK and be a kid!