HELP PLEASE!!!!! Angelfish declining, ick or columnaris???

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primsloaches16

primsloaches16

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Mixing medications is a quick way to poison fish. Most medications are dosed at a level high enough to kill microscopic organisms but not high enough to kill the fish. However, if you mix medications, you can easily overdose the tank and poison the fish.

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How long has the fish had the white dot on the pectoral (side) fin and the tail?
If the white dot on the pectoral fin and tail have been there for more than 1 week, it is not white spot.

The safest way to treat white spot is to raise the water temperature to 30C (86F) and keep it there for at least 2 weeks, or 1 week after all the white dots have disappeared.

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The white marks on the face are Hole in the Head disease and minor cases can be treated with salt and clean water. More advanced cases need Metronidazole.

Hole in the head disease is caused by Hexamita and generally occurs in cichlids kept in dirty tanks, overstocked tanks, or tanks that don't get cleaned enough.

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Treatment is as follows.
Wipe the inside of the glass down with a clean fish sponge.

Do a 75% water change and gravel clean the substrate every day for 2 weeks. The water changes and gravel cleaning will reduce the number of disease organisms in the water and provide a cleaner environment for the fish to recover in. It also removes a lot of the gunk and this means any medication can work on treating the fish instead of being wasted killing the pathogens in the gunk.
Make sure any new water is free of chlorine/ chloramine before it is added to the tank.

Clean the filter if it hasn't been done in the last 2 weeks. However, if the filter is less than 6 weeks old, do not clean it. Wash the filter materials/ media in a bucket of tank water and re-use them. Tip the bucket of dirty water on the garden/ lawn. Cleaning the filter means less gunk and cleaner water with fewer pathogens.

Increase surface turbulence/ aeration when using salt or medications because they reduce the dissolved oxygen in the water.

Add some salt, (see directions below).

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SALT
You can add rock salt (often sold as aquarium salt), sea salt or swimming pool salt to the aquarium at the dose rate of 2 heaped tablespoon per 20 litres of water.

Keep the salt level like this for at least 2 weeks but no longer than 4 weeks otherwise kidney damage can occur. Kidney damage is more likely to occur in fish from soft water (tetras, Corydoras, angelfish, Bettas & gouramis, loaches) that are exposed to high levels of salt for an extended period of time, and is not an issue with livebearers, rainbowfish or other salt tolerant species.

The salt will not affect the beneficial filter bacteria, fish, plants, shrimp or snails.

After you use salt and the fish have recovered, you do a 10% water change each day for a week using only fresh water that has been dechlorinated. Then do a 20% water change each day for a week. Then you can do bigger water changes after that. This dilutes the salt out of the tank slowly so it doesn't harm the fish.

When you do water changes while using salt, you need to treat the new water with salt before adding it to the tank. This will keep the salt level stable in the tank and minimise stress on the fish.
Also, I only recently noticed the white spots and patches in the last 4 days, she was very active and normal and then all or a sudden lethargic and shy.
 
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primsloaches16

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HELP!! I'm not sure how, but even though this wc was only hours old, the ammonia is 1ppm. Straight from the tap??? Like I did a 100% wc from the tap (did condition with stress coat) I'm doing a immediate 50% wc but I'm freaking out!!! The water is foggy but theres only aquarium salt and bacteria!!!!! I feel so stupid but I dont want to kill my fish!
 
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primsloaches16

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The water ammonia levels:
Before wc: 1ppm
Straight from tap: 0ppm
After wc: .25-.50 ppm

Wanda is struggling badly and is slumped on the floor of the tank. Should I move them back to their home tank and just raise the temp there? The levels are toxic in this quarantine tank since I didny have time to cycle and I'm afraid the ammonia in this tank is just straight killing her
 
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primsloaches16

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I think I'm going to move them back to the home tank. Should I dose the home tank with salt or not since I have scaleless fish and cories? This is a roller coaster of emotion and I am very stressed.
 
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primsloaches16

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I checked the levels of the display tank and the ammonia is 0ppm. I am raising the temp of the main tank and will be moving them back in. Please let me know about the salt if you can help. Thank you guys I apologize for all of the confusion I'm just very scared and nervous. I dont think Wanda will make it but I'm going to try my hardest.
 
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primsloaches16

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I moved them back successfully and the tank is slowly heatin up. Unfortunately I dont think Wanda is going to make it. I put her in a breeder box so shed be left alone, later let her out because I read being confined is more stress. She is lying on her side on a plant just breathing heavily. I think these are her final moments and I'm just going to spend this time with her.
 
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Lajos_Detari

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Sorry to hear about the loss of your fish.

In future, if you have fish that is breathing fast, there are two possible treatments:
1)If you suspect its due to Ammonia poisoning, you can try to dip the fish in Methylene blue.

2)But if you suspect its due to gill flukes infection, you can dip the fish in Potassium Permanganate.
But you must observe the fish during treatment as some fish especially smaller fish may not be able to take it.
You have to take it out immediately if the fish is struggling to breathe.


Here are some information about Methylene blue & Potassium Permanganate:
See the link below.

Methylene blue is used as a medication for the treatment of methemoglobinemia.
Methemoglobinemia can be caused by high nitrites (and ammonia) in the blood, which happens in fish respiration in water high in ammonia or nitrites. Methemoglobinemia is treated with the use of methylene blue, which restores the hemoglobin to its normal oxygen-carrying state.

 
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Lajos_Detari

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I admit I hadn't changed the water in about 3 weeks, but the ammonia levels stayed in the .02 or less ppm based on my ammonia indicator in the tank. I've been having a tough time mentally and it has effected my maintenance but my most recent wc (3 days ago) was 50% when I noticed she was ill. I will replace the water in the qt tank and only dose with salt and beneficial bacteria. They do get frozen bloodworms around every other day for my eels but 95% of the worms are target fed to the eels using a pipette, I give a very small amount to the Angel's and dithers as a treat. I appreciate the help in all of this I feel quite dumb, I havent had any cases of fish illness other than my betta getting dropsy, and by the time I noticed that she had passed in the next few hours. I'm hoping my Angel's will pull through. Will keep updated!

When you have many fish in a tank plus heavy feeding, it's best to change large water once a week.

In the past, when I was keeping Discus, I changed at least 100% of water once a week.
Here is how I changed the water:
I would first siphon out 80-90% of water. Then I would refill the tank with fresh water to about 40-50%.
Then I would siphon out the water again until it left only about 10-20% of water before refilling it with fresh water to the full.

It's best not to feed your fish with frozen bloodworms. There are two Discus breeders who had warned against feeding your fish with bloodworms. Also, there are people who are allergic to bloodworms and it can cause serious allergic reactions such as breathing problems or breathlessness.

Here is a link from Jack Wattley about the possible side effects of feeding with bloodworms.
 
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ThatFishGirl6231

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Although I suggested it might be ich earlier, if there have been no additions to the established tank it is likely not Ich.
i think there is still a big possibly to have ich. in my experience, my established tank got ich twice like 8 and 11 months in with no additions.
 
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primsloaches16

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When you have many fish in a tank plus heavy feeding, it's best to change large water once a week.

In the past, when I was keeping Discus, I changed at least 100% of water once a week.
Here is how I changed the water:
I would first siphon out 80-90% of water. Then I would refill the tank with fresh water to about 40-50%.
Then I would siphon out the water again until it left only about 10-20% of water before refilling it with fresh water to the full.

It's best not to feed your fish with frozen bloodworms. There are two Discus breeders who had warned against feeding your fish with bloodworms. Also, there are people who are allergic to bloodworms and it can cause serious allergic reactions such as breathing problems or breathlessness.

Here is a link from Jack Wattley about the possible side effects of feeding with bloodworms.
Thank you for this advice, I will definitely be doing weekly wc's from this point on. I feel so foolish for what has happened but I tried my best for her with the knowledge I had and loved her since she was a baby. I put her to rest in my sunflower bed. She was truly a special fish.
 

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If you are getting ich without introduction of new fish it would seem to me that it never fully got cleared up, though I am really haven't studied the parasite other than what is available online. I have heard other people mention they believe that the ich remains in the tank so you are not alone on that opinion. If it is ich it would be interesting to know what other creatures are in your tank because there might be something that serves as a reservoir for the parasite.

I am most sorry about Wanda, when you have a fish for a while one can get attached to them.
 

Lajos_Detari

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i think there is still a big possibly to have ich. in my experience, my established tank got ich twice like 8 and 11 months in with no additions.
Did you add any new plants?
I don't think ich can survive so long in dormant stage(in eggs or cysts form) unless you are keeping your fish in cold water.

Plants are hosts to many types of parasites and pests.
You have to sterilize them and quarantine them before putting into your tank.
This is due to the fact that most plants are often farmed in polluted area. The farms probably may even reuse their fish tanks water for the farms if they also breed fish.
 
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primsloaches16

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Did you add any new plants?
I don't think ich can survive so long in dormant stage(in eggs or cysts form) unless you are keeping your fish in cold water.

Plants are hosts to many types of parasites and pests.
You have to sterilize them and quarantine them before putting into your tank.
This is due to the fact that most plants are often farmed in polluted area. The farms probably may even reuse their fish tanks water for the farms if they also breed fish.
I got new plants about a month and a half ago and it got uprooted. It got a bad case of hair algae but I looked into it and it doesnt say the hair algae is bad. I removed it all with my heavy wc and threw away the new plant.
 

Lajos_Detari

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I got new plants about a month and a half ago and it got uprooted. It got a bad case of hair algae but I looked into it and it doesnt say the hair algae is bad. I removed it all with my heavy wc and threw away the new plant.

Anyway, for your case it's definitely not due to ich.
If a fish died of ich, its whole body will be full of white spots.

For your case, most likely it's due to ammonia poisoning though some disease like gill flukes can also cause fast breathing at final stage.

As long as you change 70% of water each week, your fish will be fine.
You can continue to monitor your fish for any disease.
But if you don't have any fish die for the past few months, then most likely you can consider your tank is safe and free from parasites.
 

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