Filter Floss

[snake007]

If the floss carries no bacteria, how come it seems to help everyone?

 

[fluttermoth]

I've had a few people have good results with media I've sent out.

I usually send a few ceramic rings, wrapped up in floss, with a couple of tablespoon of water from the filter and a tiny pinch of flake food, all in a fish bag, and then in a jiffy bag, sent next day delivery.

 

[Tolak]

Would the bacteria on the floss survive being posted as I thought it had to have a supply of ammonia or the bacteria die after a couple of hours
I need to change mine and its been in a couple of months now, if its any use to anyone you can have it but it will be minging

With no food source {ammonia} you'll experience 10% to 12% die back every 24 hours, as long as the media stays wet. The motion of being shipped generally assures enough water motion to keep O2 levels reasonable.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Would the bacteria on the floss survive being posted as I thought it had to have a supply of ammonia or the bacteria die after a couple of hours
I need to change mine and its been in a couple of months now, if its any use to anyone you can have it but it will be minging

With no food source {ammonia} you'll experience 10% to 12% die back every 24 hours, as long as the media stays wet. The motion of being shipped generally assures enough water motion to keep O2 levels reasonable.

There won't be any significant die back due to lack of ammonia, the bacteria will just go dormant.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

If the floss carries no bacteria, how come it seems to help everyone?

Does it though? Just how many people has it helped (that couldn't be put down to other reasons).

It will carry some bacteria but an insignificant amount as it is an unsuitable substrate for nitrifiers.

 

[minnnt]

Fluttermoth, that is great advice, i like it. Thats how i will send out media from now on.

 

[Tolak]

Would the bacteria on the floss survive being posted as I thought it had to have a supply of ammonia or the bacteria die after a couple of hours
I need to change mine and its been in a couple of months now, if its any use to anyone you can have it but it will be minging

With no food source {ammonia} you'll experience 10% to 12% die back every 24 hours, as long as the media stays wet. The motion of being shipped generally assures enough water motion to keep O2 levels reasonable.

There won't be any significant die back due to lack of ammonia, the bacteria will just go dormant.

That is pretty much the case from my experiences. I'll take a tub that is stocked with a couple hundred fish, sell out in a weekend. A couple weeks later add another couple hundred after a large water change. Another large water change a few days later & all is good.

I've done this so many times over the years that tests aren't even done any more. I did them the first few times long ago, no spikes of any kind.

 

[Prime Ordeal]

Would the bacteria on the floss survive being posted as I thought it had to have a supply of ammonia or the bacteria die after a couple of hours
I need to change mine and its been in a couple of months now, if its any use to anyone you can have it but it will be minging

With no food source {ammonia} you'll experience 10% to 12% die back every 24 hours, as long as the media stays wet. The motion of being shipped generally assures enough water motion to keep O2 levels reasonable.

There won't be any significant die back due to lack of ammonia, the bacteria will just go dormant.

That is pretty much the case from my experiences. I'll take a tub that is stocked with a couple hundred fish, sell out in a weekend. A couple weeks later add another couple hundred after a large water change. Another large water change a few days later & all is good.

I've done this so many times over the years that tests aren't even done any more. I did them the first few times long ago, no spikes of any kind.

Sorry, I think I'm just being dense today, but for the life of me I just can't figure out the point your trying to make? Can you clarify please?

 

[Tolak]

The bacteria really don't die back with a greatly reduced source of ammonia, appear to go more dormant than anything. The usually stated capability of doubling every 24 hours doesn't seem to apply, they rebound quite a bit more quickly. I'll leave a couple stray fish in a tub for easily 2-3 weeks before restocking with a couple hundred. If the usual doubling every 24 hours applied I'd be having some major issues.

As far as floss, as long as it has surface area it has a place for bacteria to grow. Floss does have quite a bit of surface area, though nowhere near as much as the ceramic bio medias available. Bacteria aren't picky, as long as there is suitable O2, food, and water flow they will grow.

 

[minnnt]

The bacteria really don't die back with a greatly reduced source of ammonia, appear to go more dormant than anything. The usually stated capability of doubling every 24 hours doesn't seem to apply, they rebound quite a bit more quickly. I'll leave a couple stray fish in a tub for easily 2-3 weeks before restocking with a couple hundred. If the usual doubling every 24 hours applied I'd be having some major issues.

As far as floss, as long as it has surface area it has a place for bacteria to grow. Floss does have quite a bit of surface area, though nowhere near as much as the ceramic bio medias available. Bacteria aren't picky, as long as there is suitable O2, food, and water flow they will grow.

Thanks John, so this thread is a good idea then?

 

[FishFanatic04]

I was having off the chart nitrite spikes and couldn't control it. I received a nasty piece of filter floss from hard found pet store and in 24 hours nitrites are 0. That's all the proof I need that bacteria is happy in floss.

Just wish this thread had been up sooner. It took a whole day, 8 fish store stops and 2 tanks of gas to find the floss I used. Postage would have been much cheaper

I'll be willing to send some out as soon as my tank settles in. Got some nice build up going on.

 

[Livewire88]

I will be cleaning out both my canister filters this weekend so if anyone wants my dirty filter floss they are welcome to it as long as postage costs are covered

Just PM me

 

[Prime Ordeal]

The bacteria really don't die back with a greatly reduced source of ammonia, appear to go more dormant than anything. The usually stated capability of doubling every 24 hours doesn't seem to apply, they rebound quite a bit more quickly. I'll leave a couple stray fish in a tub for easily 2-3 weeks before restocking with a couple hundred. If the usual doubling every 24 hours applied I'd be having some major issues.

OK now I see where you're at.
What will actually happen is that when the tub is left with a minimal food source (the two fish) some of the bacteria will go dormant and some will eke it out on the reduced ammonia but still remain viable (i.e. not dormant). The 'rebound' time for the dormant bacteria gets longer the longer the bacteria are left without food. So when you dump a couple of hundred back into the tub after a couple of weeks there's no way the bacteria are adequate to cope with that bioload.

Initially there will be a large production of CO2 from the very stressed fish and that will fairly rapidly lower the pH to such an extent that the toxic effect of the ammonia, which is now being produced by two hundred stressed fish, will be greatly reduced. At the same time the viable bacteria will start to reproduce again in a day or two and a few days later the dormant bacteria will start to function again and probably within the week you are back to a full bacterial colony suitable for the huge bioload. Presumably you also add a declorinator of some sort that also detoxifies ammonia? That would help too for the first couple of days.
You say you don't test any more. I suggest you test for ammonia a few hours after the fish have been put in the tub, I think you'll be surprised at the level you find. Either that or I'll be surprised at the level you don't find.

As far as floss, as long as it has surface area it has a place for bacteria to grow. Floss does have quite a bit of surface area, though nowhere near as much as the ceramic bio medias available. Bacteria aren't picky, as long as there is suitable O2, food, and water flow they will grow.

I have to disagree with that. It stands to reason that if all the bacteria needed to grow was "O2, food, and water flow" our water column would be filled to the brim with the little devils and we know that's not the case.
Furthermore nitrifying bacteria really are fussy about where they set up home. They only like to be attached to solid surfaces. This is precisely why we don't find them in the water column. It's also why the bacteria in a bottle products grow them on tiny fragments of volcanic rock. I don't doubt that there are nitrifying bacteria in the floss but I do doubt that they are there in any significant number.

 

[FishFanatic04]

There's no way that the nitrifying bacteria multiplied enough for the nitrites to go from off the chart to 0 in 1 night. The only thing I added to my tank was used filter floss. I'm wondering if you are arguing that point for arguments sake. There seems to be a lot of success stories with floss.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

The bacteria really don't die back with a greatly reduced source of ammonia, appear to go more dormant than anything. The usually stated capability of doubling every 24 hours doesn't seem to apply, they rebound quite a bit more quickly. I'll leave a couple stray fish in a tub for easily 2-3 weeks before restocking with a couple hundred. If the usual doubling every 24 hours applied I'd be having some major issues.

As far as floss, as long as it has surface area it has a place for bacteria to grow. Floss does have quite a bit of surface area, though nowhere near as much as the ceramic bio medias available. Bacteria aren't picky, as long as there is suitable O2, food, and water flow they will grow.

Thanks John, so this thread is a good idea then?

This thread is a great idea. The floss works just fine. It is no different than any other media.