Rusty's Apisto. Cacs - Letter Of Complaint Pg 3.

[RustedKnight]

I bought these from Kesgrave... Both of mine coloured up beautifully, but after aggression issues between the two, I found out that they'd actually sent me two males and not a m+f pair.

They got so bad, I've had to split them up into different tanks.

Do you think I should ask for a female FOC? I don't want to send the males back since they're stunning fish!

Ryan

If you have room for it, I'd ask for one female FOC, and pay for a couple more females, so there is no arguing.

 

[RustedKnight]

Hi Paul, this is regarding 2x Apistogramma Cacatuoides "super red" that I purchased and recieved off you on wednesday.

Proof of identification - (Unique Transaction ID #----------------) taken from paypal.

-=-=-

I have taken photo's of the male this morning, he has coloured up well. I also have photos from other cockatoo cichlids stockists;

The male, as of today. Shots taken with and without flash.

First 2 shots, without flash;

http/img168.imageshack.us/i/img5448j.jpg/

http/img9.imageshack.us/i/img5449gt.jpg/

second 2 shots with flash;

http/img602.imageshack.us/i/img5450.jpg/

http/img258.imageshack.us/i/img5453l.jpg/

Now, i'm sure you can agree, this male is barely orange, let alone red. Also, a Super red cockatoo (as advertised and purchased, if you look at your own photograph here - http/img72.imageshack.us/i/cichlid1.jpg/ , all the fish have all fins black and solid red, this guy only has 1 full blackened fin, and speckles on the other 2 fins)

Other examples of people selling super reds on the internet;

http/www.aquaticquotient.com/gallery/files/5/4/2/WZ4R7774ER.jpg

http/www.mtfb.com/SouthernApistos/images/brilliantredcacatuoides.jpg

http/bluegrassaquatics.com/catalog/product/gallery/id/1659/image/1281/

Now, the male I have recieved is technically a triple red, as the only colour is on the anal fins, dorsal fin and tail fin. But again, there is barely any red.
Examples of triple reds;

http/www.mtfb.com/SouthernApistos/images/cacatuoides/cacatuoides_quad_1.jpg

http/www.mtfb.com/SouthernApistos/3redcacatuoides.jpg

-=-=-

So, where do we go from here? Honestly, the fish you sent me are in good health, and they are very attractive fish, but they are not what I ordered, not what I paid for, and certainly not as advertised. And this is where my problem lies.

Many thanks in advance for your response. (--------), (------------) on ebay.

That is what I intend to send to kesgrave tropicals today, posting it here first incase anyone thinks i'm being out of order with it, so i can modify it before I send it.
Some obvious bits removed for security reasons.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

sounds fair cop to me. I guess its better to raise your concerns now, even if he says 'give it a month to colour up' than to go back to them in a month when they say 'too late!'

 

[RustedKnight]

sounds fair cop to me. I guess its better to raise your concerns now, even if he says 'give it a month to colour up' than to go back to them in a month when they say 'too late!'

Yeah thats my concern, i'd rather keep him updated, then he can't argue about it.

This is in response to the following email I recieved off him today;

Hi Im not really up on the intricate differences with each species of cockatoo, but I can assure you they were brought as super reds and are ten times more colorful than the regular cockatoos we have had in stock. Maybe its just a not so top grade version im not sure. Let me know how they color up. Regards, Paul

This actually concerned me, as they were sold as

Super red, stunning grade!

and, well how can they be stunning grade if you don't know what each grade means. And obviously a colour strain will be much more colourful than the basic cockatoo's he's selling (at half the price).

I'm trying to be fair as the male still may colour up, I'm just trying to get things sorted, and also help this guy up his knowledge on the subject in case someone else asks him about it.

 

[meguro]

Erm, (someone correct me if I am wrong, please) as far as I know, the colour of the fins and tails can not change at all. (I mean, some species, somewhere probably can, but none of the ones we keep in our tanks.)

And I wasn't aware that fins could change colour either.

i think diet can play a large part with colouration

 

[RustedKnight]

Erm, (someone correct me if I am wrong, please) as far as I know, the colour of the fins and tails can not change at all. (I mean, some species, somewhere probably can, but none of the ones we keep in our tanks.)

And I wasn't aware that fins could change colour either.

i think diet can play a large part with colouration

Well mine are on a very rich protein diet, so in theory they should reach max colouration then.

 

[moochy13]

maybe some sort of agreement to keep him happy ? give the fish a couple of weeks to colour out and if not have a replacement or something.

 

[Dan-CR4]

mine dont have much colour at the moment, but i did not buy a certain strain. If you bought a certain strain of fish and he advertised them as top quality and now saying they are not top quality as advertised "Super red, stunning grade!" then you have every right to complain. As people have said above make an aggreement where you will give it a couple of weeks for them to colour up and if not then a replacement or refund should be issued.

Hope you can both sort it out

 

[RustedKnight]

Ok, well I edited the bottom line to say "i'm happy to give the fish a while to see if they colour up more, but if they don't colour up to a satisfactory level are you willing to come to some kind of agreement?"

...

I was offered £6 store credit. For £30's worth of possibly incorrect fish. I think i'm buying elsewhere and couping my losses.

 

[Dan-CR4]

thats the only thing with mail order, you cant see the exact fish you are buying (even if the seller shows pics of the fish) and if you need to send the fish back some companies/sellers only refund you the cost of the fish, the buyer is responsible for the postage both ways.

I hope yours do colour up well for you.

I must say though yours are more colorful than mine, how big are yours?

Danny

 

[RustedKnight]

thats the only thing with mail order, you cant see the exact fish you are buying (even if the seller shows pics of the fish) and if you need to send the fish back some companies/sellers only refund you the cost of the fish, the buyer is responsible for the postage both ways.

I hope yours do colour up well for you.

Danny

Well if he was covering the cost of the fish it'd be £15.99 not £6.

yeah I hope the fish colour up to. I'm done with kesgrave tropicals. Poxy £6.

And mine are like, 1.5inches for the male, and about 1.2inches for the female.

 

[meguro]

i think diet can play a large part with colouration

Well mine are on a very rich protein diet, so in theory they should reach max colouration then.

protein isnt the same as beta carotene and astaxanthin

 

[KittyKat]

[...]the colour of the fins and tails can not change at all [...] [implying in a fish whose fins are fully grown]

And I wasn't aware that fins could change colour either.

i think diet can play a large part with colouration

Well mine are on a very rich protein diet, so in theory they should reach max colouration then.

protein isnt the same as beta carotene and astaxanthin

The body colour is most definitely affected by diet and can change with age, stress, breeding, general happiness of the fish. What about the fins specifically?

Thinking some more about it, some fish do change the whole body and fin colour when they age (for example goldfish).. still, I have never observed extreme changes in cockatoos: once the fin-colour develops, it stays there.

 

[RustedKnight]

Thats what i assumed, plus if they were the fish actually as advertised, then they would have the full red fins, as advertised. But they don't. And I can't see them changing from 80% yellow fins to 100% blood red fins.

Therefore Kesgrave tropicals has ****** me off, sold me bad colour strain fish, false advertisement, and only offered a puny £6 store credit as a sorry.

My first ever online dealing and it's gone like this. Well done kesgraves for putting me off buying fish online

 

[elisew]

Don`t let one bad experience put you off buying online RK

Personally I`m surprised at the reply and offer you`ve had because out of all the fish I`ve bought from there I`ve not once had any reason to be dubious or complain, everything has been very spot on. I`ve even bought from Kesgrave without going through ebay and still never had any problems.

Obviously I was wrong about giving the Apistos a few days to see if they colour up a bit as they quite clearly haven`t. Sorry that you feel so crap about it all even though it`s understandable.