New To Cichlids

[BelldandyShanny]

Hello everyone, it's been a while since my last post, my tank has been all changed around and now I have some questions.  After doing much research I decided to get a pair of German Blue Rams for my tank, and after looking and looking and looking, I finally found a pair marked as "blue ram" m ramerizi, so I jumped on the chance.  They were in a different tanke from quite a few bolivians, which I don't like as much.  Given they are small yet I was wondering if one anybody could confirm they are infact ramerizi, and if it's at all possible to tell male from female.  I'm relatively certain I have one of each.
 
Reasonings for rams as opposed to anything else...I only have 20 gallons so dwarf is good in my book.  They are typically gentile fish, and like a "braver" fish to hang out with so they know it's safe to be seen.  Which is why I have housed them with guppies and a couple scissor tail rasboras.  I got second opinions of the pairings from the people at the store as well.
 
So far they seem to be doing alright, coming out in the open and hiding and a bunch of back and forthing.  I'm trying to fatten them up on some frozen brine shrimp.  Everyone is getting along swimmingly, get it? 
 
Thanks for any info
 
Sorry for picture quality, they do like to skitter about and it's just a cell phone camera.

 

[Wills]

Hard to say as I cant see them both together fully the pic on the right it would be good to see both of them near each other to compare fin extensions.
 
I have to say it when ever I see a newish Ram owner - just be prepared for the fact they are very hard to keep for their full life span (5 - 7 years) this is because the wild type rams need high temperatures and low ph where as farm bred fish need mid ph and mid temperatures. And the tough thing to know is from shop bought fish you dont know if their parents were wild or totally farm bred 30th generation stock etc or even if one parent was wild and the other was farm which is something farms do to try and keep the quality up. So its tough because of the lack of info you might have so you dont know how best to keep them other than to guess and then the other thing is if they were wilds or close to wilds your tank mates are not ideal for that temperature and ph range... but they would be okay for the farm bred fish. Though Scissor tails are pretty large active fish... I would have gone for a larger tank for these personally...
 
Wills

 

[fm1978]

They're definitely rams, yes. And, based on that pic, which isn't ideal, you have a male on the right and a female on the left.

Don't quote me on that...a better pic would be good!

 

[BelldandyShanny]

thanks for the reply, and as for the tank, it's the one I already had, the guppies were my choice, the scissors were my other half's... I wouldn't have chosen them myself.  I'll try for a better picture however.  The fish came from petsmart, if that's any help at all.

They're definitely rams, yes.

Well I didn't question they were rams, I was questioning if they were infact german blues or bolivians.  My gut says they're blues, and male and female, but it never hurts to ask those more qualified.

 

[BelldandyShanny]

Ok so here is the best picture I could get of them together, at least for now, they sit in just the perfect spot till I walk over then poof! but I hear that's normal when you first get them.

 

[Wills]

Sorry missed the first question lol yes they are definitely Blue Rams not Bolivians.
 
I would say from the second pic you have a male on the left and a female on the right the one on the right looks smaller and looks like it has the iridescent scales in the latteral spot. 
 
From a chain store there is a good chance they are just farm bred but farms do cross in wild fish now and again to keep the stock quality up... so it is hard to judge but I think the way you are keeping them is probably the best way for them
 
They are lovely looking fish btw
Wills

 

[BelldandyShanny]

Thanks! I do like watching them, you can tell they are curious critters, "puffing up" now and then and slowly approaching the camera to make sure it's safe, till you adjust it and then they skitter.

 

[BelldandyShanny]

ok so species and gender figured out, what behavior should I look for to determine if they have bonded?

 

[BelldandyShanny]

I am absolutely in love with these fish! so fun to watch and pretty

 

[BelldandyShanny]

as I'm new to cichlids, I was just curious if there's any other dwarfy kinds that would "play nice" with my rams? and guppies, it's only 20 gallons so I'm not holding out too much hope, but it's nice to know.

 

[wrightt3]

Is it a 20g long or high? Also how many guppies do you have?
Keyholes, apistos or laetacaras could work depending on those two factors.

 

[BelldandyShanny]

I'm really not certain as to "long" or "high" it just looks....like a standard tank to me.  Until being on this site I have never heard that there was different types.  I can take measurements if that helps.  As for guppies at present I have 5, I was trying to keep two males and two females per male, but for some reason I have bad luck with them (males that is)... So, 5 guppies, 4 scissortail rasboras (which can be rehomed), 5 indian whisker shrimp, 2 kuhli loaches, and 2 yoyo loaches.
 
 
Also as to one of my earlier questions...is there any behavior I should be looking for to determine if my rams have bonded? They were the only two in the tank at the store, and they pretty much stick together like glue, occasionally one will venture off on it's own to the other side of the tank.  Their colors are popping out nicely, lots more yellow than previous, blue isn't as dark as I'd like it but I love looking at them just the same.
 
I'll toss up a picture of my tank too, incase anyone thinks it "needs anything"  I was considering a coconut shell cave that I can anchor plants too, like I did with my bog wood.

 

[BelldandyShanny]

24l x 12w x 17h  Here are some front, side, and back pics, for reference.

 

[wrightt3]

Right, that's a 20g high. A 20g long would be 36x12x12". This unfortunately will mean that you can't keep any more cichlids

I would focus on sorting out your current stock at the moment anyway, Those rasboras will need to be in a group of at least 6 o be happy. Same with the loaches but I would rehome the yoyos because they get too big (6")
Something like this would be appropriate and would fully stock your tank.
-6 rasboras
-2 rams
-6 kuhli loaches
-5 shrimp
Even if you rehomed everything but the rams, you still couldn't add any more cichlids because of their territorial nature.
 
 
I can't be of help with signs of bonding but if they are staying close then that's a good sign.

 

[BelldandyShanny]

*sigh* that's what I was afraid of.  But now I know incase I ever upgrade!  My yoyos are here at least until they get too big, they are helping combat some snails at the moment.  I do love watching them (and pretty much any loach I've ever had)  Thanks for the info. I'll be keeping my eye out for larger tanks looking for homes, I'd love a bigger one anyhow!  My tank table has much more room than this 20 takes up.