Lily Rose Tank No. 2

thankyou, I'm just glad they can't infect my fish as they are fighting with whitespot as it is. Lost 2 to ich already and a few more not looking great, although I am treating it....can it be hit or miss with whitespot treatments or should i just prepare to loose them all?
Plus how long will it take to clear the Ich...as the spots went and came back again and how much feed is too much. I actually can believe Im overfeeding them, as they always look for food so I've been feeding 3 times a day with finely crushed flake a large pinch each time and i replace one flake meal with brine shrimp in jelly ( come in sachets) every 3 days....the babies are growing well and at 4 days old their colour is in ( white with black peppering just like their mum who we lost by the way )
 
o no,no,no! They ALWAYS will act starved. You only ever feed as much as they can eat in 2 to 3 minutes (stop at 3 min mark as you're learning) and only once per day, no more. This is important for their own health, as well as the tank's!

Planaria are completely harmless, come with every new tank at some stage and indeed are enjoyed by the fish sometimes. They go away by themselves.

~~waterdrop~~
 
o no,no,no! They ALWAYS will act starved. You only ever feed as much as they can eat in 2 to 3 minutes (stop at 3 min mark as you're learning) and only once per day, no more. This is important for their own health, as well as the tank's!

Planaria are completely harmless, come with every new tank at some stage and indeed are enjoyed by the fish sometimes. They go away by themselves.

~~waterdrop~~

OK I consider myself told off, but I gotta think of the fry that is in there too. they need more feeds don't they? how much should they eat a pinch for the whole 7 adults and a pinch for the babies, they are only today released into the aquarium and I think they are ok. been watching them, very cute.

ammonia 0 nitrite 0 nitrate 0-5 pH 7.4 temp 30 degrees

the trouble is, that only a greedy 2 or 3 of the fish will surface to feed, the shy ones dont come out of hiding..how do I make sure they are feeding properly.
 
You are exactly right. The ideal feeding for fry is pretty different, several tiny feedings of tiny food! I could say some generalized stuff but this is really a livebearer question and it will once again be better if OM happens along or the common livebearer forum answers with tips for your mixed situation. In the meantime, creativity never hurts.. I remember using big bunches of hornwort (hairly like stem plants) to kind of create little separate surface pools that my fry would get in to and I could sneak them some little feedings without the big folk seeing it!

~~waterdrop~~
 
yeah i thought of doing night feedings when the big girlies cant see me, and put it in the areas they are in usually ( they are quite brazen now...coming up top as if saying "see me catch me" to the older ones.

ok waterdrop, are you able to explain why when this tank was showing double zero now I'm getting 0.25 ammonia every day and doing 50% changes.babies have increased bioload?....how much poop can 32 babies produce? lol
bought new fish to replace the ones I've lost....keeping them in separate tank until next week when treatment for whitespot finished. only one fish showing spots now although some others are stick flicking very occassionally, so hopefully will be all over in a weeks time
 
Its not the fry poop, its that fish give off ammonia as a respiration product from their gills, so the high metabolism of babies causes them to actually be a higher bioload than one might think. Having fry -really is- like adding a lot of bigger fish to your tank in some ways and so is one of the reasons we.. hesitate about it with beginners. It gives your bacteria a run for their money so to speak and well matured filters over a year old or so are better able to respond to the needed quick increase. So yes, it creates even more of a fish-in cycling challange.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Its not the fry poop, its that fish give off ammonia as a respiration product from their gills, so the high metabolism of babies causes them to actually be a higher bioload than one might think. Having fry -really is- like adding a lot of bigger fish to your tank in some ways and so is one of the reasons we.. hesitate about it with beginners. It gives your bacteria a run for their money so to speak and well matured filters over a year old or so are better able to respond to the needed quick increase. So yes, it creates even more of a fish-in cycling challange.

~~waterdrop~~

challenge! well that said i'm pleased with the way things are going then, clearing in 12hr, and needing a 50% waterchange once a day is much better than it could be...i.e. ammonia extremely high permenantly. so i'm pleased then, great thanks for the info. once again a godsend WD

this mornings results
ammonia 0 nitrites 0 nitrates 5

can i consider the filter on my ar620 better than the pf2 in my 64L....

ar620 has top filter (external?)with 2 compartments with about 10x the number of noodles than in my pf2 has (internal small canister type with white sponge, black carbon sponge and small noodle area, which holds 14 noodles)in comparison, the ar620 has 120 noodles, (guess) so I assume the ar620 is a better model....? the ar620 has two carbon cartridges, ( flat cartridge with fine filter layer keeping the carbon inside the cartridge, plus black filter sponge ( I don't think its carbon impregnated) and then the noodles. water feed is via a sprinkler arm fed from a tube that reaches down into the bottom of the tank.....sorry for long description, hope you understand what I mean, If I wanted to seed my PF1 filter on the 48L tank ( smaller model of 64L tank) exactly how would I do it.,....for future reference. wouldnt do it now of course, as its not ready or old enough. thanks
 
"~can I consider one filter to be better than another"

Yes, you're correctly on to the first and most basic comparison: media volume.. a nice big thick bed of any type of media is better than a few pieces of it or a thin amount of it - makes common sense to most people and is right (with the rare exception of a media getting too packed down and causing the flow through of water to be too slow.)

The second factor (staying general here for learning) is the "fit" of the media in its container. We don't water to be able to "cheat" and find pathways through the media such that it doesn't pass close enough to the media obstructions to allow them to do their thing and stop particles or process substances. (mechanical media simply traps particles, chemical media grabs particles via plus/minus charge and biological media of course means each little bacterial cell takes in a substance, does a complicated chemical process on it and then gives off something else.) So for "fit" you don't want your media leaky or too tight. In a good filter design you will see that the designer has thought about this!

Beyond this you get into more and more comparison factors that I could write paragraphs and paragraphs about. For instance, the little pipe that sprays the pumped water down on top of the media.. well that's fine but the tradeoff there is noise, its going to inevitably create some water noise (pure internals and external cannisters avoid this by keeping all operations submerged at all times, whereas HOBs, "quasi-HOBs" like yours and Sumps all have water noise.) So I'll leave off the comparison and move on to your mature media question..

All media, or most media I should say, perform an overlap of functions: for example, carbon chunks have chemical (charge based) filtration as their primary function but they will also harbor a fair number of bacteria on their surfaces acting as a mediocre biological media. What this means is that virtually all media can conceivably have some seeding benefit if moved to a less mature or new filter. Still, seeding is always all about biological media and getting bacteria, so moving the *biological* media is best. In less expensive filters the sponges are the primary biological media whereas in large expensive filters the ceramics will carry probably more than the sponges. As we know, both of these compete as the very top biological surface devices. Ceramics like rings/noodles are also great at randomizing the water flow and helping with large particle trapping. As the mechanical sieve function grows smaller, sponges quickly win out and finally of course one must resort to floss or floss pads for the finest of particles (short of super high-tech membranes and pressurized force like an RO unit uses to take minerals out of water!) All of this is to say that if you are aware of it you may have more options for seeding than you might at first guess.

But still, the primary best practice is to either use scissors to cut sponges or simply divide and take some of your ceramics. The golden rule (at least from my reading here and elsewhere) is that you can remove up to 1/3 of your biomedia safely. The 2/3 that remains, if the media was mature of course, should regrow with minimal chance of a mini-cycle in the donor tank.

Well, in my attempt to catch the teachable moment I may have gone on in too general a manner. Sorry! Hopefully it will give you the tools for a good choice someday or else others who may have actually done a transfer from your actual model of filter (my personal experience is limited to Eheims, Aquaclears and simple filters.) I also may have missed some of your questions...

~~waterdrop~~
 
thankyou very much waterdrop. will my filter work better then when i put the carbon cartridge back nin...at a guess yes, but only if it also houses bacs. i am keeping it wet in dechlorinated tap water, so it doesn't dry out and "kill" any bacs that do happen to be in there. but, do i expect a mini cycle after all the whitespot treatment is over?
PLUS... we have more fry,how many I have no idea, but we spotted some that are half the size of the 10 day old ones. bless
 
Did you put any other biomedia in to fill the space while the carbon was gone? Of course the possibility of it getting mature in the short time of the treatement is unlikely. Are you doing OM47's white spot treatment? I thought it was based on some time period, not on seeing white spots disappear..? The one he has a link to in his sig.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I started trying the heat treatment etc, but started to loose fish, so went the treatment way. Only a few have spots now, and their behaviour is improving. Less flicking. but need to buy more treatment tomorrow, I dont want to loose my fish, so its 50% waterchanges daily for me.
ammonia level increased to .25 today so performed another waterchange.
plus found all babies... there are 54!
oh and no i didnt put any other biomedia in, should I have and if so what?
 
The main point to that treatment, or any other one for white spot, is that it must be continued for a few days after all signs of the parasite are gone from the fish.
 
When you take out carbon you can always put in some ceramics or sponge to take up the space and be maturing. I see OM here so maybe he can comment on the ich.

~~wd~~
 
today the same, double zeros this morning, and ammonia at 0.25 this evening. 50% waterchange, and redose whitespot treatment xx
 
this morning double zeros

adding white filter sponge to first compartment and ultra fine filter floss to the second compartment, as advised by waterdrop... by the way WD, when I put my carbon cartridge back in do I leave the media for over filtration purposes?

as usual for now, ammonia hit 0.25, performed waterchange, redose with whitespot.....how long should the treatment take OM47....the spots cleared from some fish...now they have spots again!
 

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