IM NEW AND I NEED HELP

[Kaystojj]

With a nitrite of 2 ppm, another water change is needed. Basically you need to do back to back water changes to get ammonia and nitrite down to zero. Then another water change next day if either have gone above zero again.

alright!
I’m gonna go get my bucket now

the water company is going to love me

It’s my fault tho… I didn’t do my research

 

[Essjay]

I edited my post to add a bit extra and you posted while I was typing it!

 

[NannaLou]

alright!
I’m gonna go get my bucket now

the water company is going to love me

It’s my fault tho… I didn’t do my research

Or you followed instructions from the lfs like I did!
It is the case of just repeating the process... You will get there

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Yes you do have to keep adding the detoxifier in every day or two while ammonia and nitrite remain at readable levels. It’s not an add it once and that’s it thing. Prime claims to be active for 48 hours. I add more in when there are readings showing up for ammonia and/or nitrite than I do when using it as a water conditioner. I believe the labeling states you can use up to 5 times the normal amount for emergency detoxification. I’m not aware of any other products that detoxify both nitrite and ammonia either.

 

[FF_Member146894]

how does prime detoxify nitrite? from what i've seen, there's been no real scientific evidence proving that.
on the seachem site, the prime conditioner page, under FAQ, they say that they don't have a "concrete" explanation as to how it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates and that it's only based on what customers have said.
it might slightly alleviate the effects of high nitrites, but i'm certain that it doesn't actually remove or convert anything. so, stick to large water changes - using prime is not the solution.
if someone knows something more about this, do prove me wrong.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

how does prime detoxify nitrite? from what i've seen, there's been no real scientific evidence proving that.
on the seachem site, the prime conditioner page, under FAQ, they say that they don't have a "concrete" explanation as to how it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates and that it's only based on what customers have said.
it might slightly alleviate the effects of high nitrites, but i'm certain that it doesn't actually remove or convert anything. so, stick to large water changes - using prime is not the solution.
if someone knows something more about this, do prove me wrong.

I never said not to do large water changes. This would be in addition to the large water changes. I certainly can’t provide information on the chemical reaction that would be “detoxifying” the nitrite only the personal experience that fish show much less stress when it is used with readable nitrite levels.

 

[Byron]

how does prime detoxify nitrite? from what i've seen, there's been no real scientific evidence proving that.
on the seachem site, the prime conditioner page, under FAQ, they say that they don't have a "concrete" explanation as to how it detoxifies nitrites and nitrates and that it's only based on what customers have said.
it might slightly alleviate the effects of high nitrites, but i'm certain that it doesn't actually remove or convert anything. so, stick to large water changes - using prime is not the solution.
if someone knows something more about this, do prove me wrong.

Good points. I went into this with a "technician" at Seachem a few years back, and was advised that nitrites are bound somehow so they become "harmless," but it only lasts 24-36 hours [going from memory here, but I think this was the time frame]; after this period, if the "bound" nitrites were still present, they would revert to toxic nitrite form again. Much the same for nitrate, except here they admitted to me that they did not really know how this binding occurred. But in all cases, ammonia/nitrite/nitrate are not removed by Prime, only "bound" temporarily.

Another aspect of this though is the chemicals added to the water. Prime is a water conditioner, not a sort of tonic "fix-it" if ammonia, nitrite or nitrate are present. The temporary "detoxifying" of ammonia/nitrite/nitrate is intended to negate the effects of these when they are present in minimal amounts in the source water used for a water change, and this period allows the bacteria (or plants in the case of ammonia) time to "catch up." There is probably a negative effect upon fish by using this product excessively, notwithstanding Seachem's claims it is harmless up to five times the dose needed. I have no data to support this, so I will just state that I do not accept this simply because it is not logical. I did discuss this with Neale Monks a while back, and his view was that any substance in the water that had the ability to pass through the cells along with the water (which is continually doing this via osmosis) would do so, and it would be advisable to limit the risk.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

In that case the question would be which is more harmful to the fish? High nitrite levels or the chemical you’re adding in to detoxify it? Similar to giving alcohol (ethanol) for antifreeze poisoning.

 

[Naughts]

In that case the question would be which is more harmful to the fish? High nitrite levels or the chemical you’re adding in to detoxify it? Similar to giving alcohol (ethanol) for antifreeze poisoning.

It's a mute point as water changes negate both.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

Water changes only negate them at the time they are performed and then the ammonia and nitrite will slowly build back up until the next one is performed. The fish will be exposed to the building ammonia and nitrite during this time whereas if you added the detoxifier in with the water change they would not. So I don’t see that as being moot (not mute).

 

[Byron]

I won't debate which is the worse--adding chemicals that likely will cause long-term problems or allowing ammonia/nitrite to appear and remove it with a W/C--but the simple solution is to add floating plants at the start and neither issue will arise at all. That makes much more sense, either way.

 

[coriesinhawaii]

I won't debate which is the worse--adding chemicals that likely will cause long-term problems or allowing ammonia/nitrite to appear and remove it with a W/C--but the simple solution is to add floating plants at the start and neither issue will arise at all. That makes much more sense, either way.

Well I certainly agree with you there that not having the problem in the first place is better than anything you could do to fix it after it's happened. I wouldn't support improper cycling by saying you can just add detoxifiers. Only for situations like this where the fishkeeper found out after the tank was already set up or an established tank takes a hit for some other reason and the filter has to re-establish.

 

[Kaystojj]

na

Or you followed instructions from the lfs like I did!
It is the case of just repeating the process... You will get there

nannalou, you’ll be so proud of me!!!

may nitrites are sooooooooooooo much lower. I’ve been following everyone’s advice and it’s worked! No surprise, you guys are superstars
A couple more days of water changes and adding good bacteria, should be almost perfect!
Been a crazy learning curve but your support has helped, as well as everyone else!!

 

[NannaLou]

na

nannalou, you’ll be so proud of me!!!

may nitrites are sooooooooooooo much lower. I’ve been following everyone’s advice and it’s worked! No surprise, you guys are superstars
A couple more days of water changes and adding good bacteria, should be almost perfect!
Been a crazy learning curve but your support has helped, as well as everyone else!!

I’ll say thank you, but it’s a merry-go-round of retelling the information and advice I was given when I started my “it’s going all wrong” thread.
There’s a really good knowledge base (of which I’m still very much a newbie and learning fast) within this forum. Everyone is always happy to help and very rarely critical.

Well done on all the water changes, they can be hard work in bigger tanks, you’ll have very happy fish in no time

 

[noobfish]

Late to the thread here, but I just got through a similar situation. I listened to some pet shop fish "experts" instead of doing my own research and put fish in before cycling. 5 DT's, 2 dwarf gouramis, a BN pleco, and a pictus cat. Day 3 was the first sign of trouble as everyone was loosing color. Tests showed levels WAY off the charts. Started 75% water changes every other day (adding Stability with each change). About 12 days in, 2 of the DT's and 1 gourami developed mouth rot. I didn't have a hospital/quarantine tank so I had to treat the whole tank (Kanaplex) and lost any progress I had made. Saved the gourami, lost the 2 DT's.
Did a 90% water change and ran a new carbon filter for 2 days to get the meds out and started again. This time 90% water changes every day. 3 weeks later and finally got ammonia and nitrite zeroed out. So I guess it's possible to fish-in cycle, just a lot of time, energy, water and conditioner! But boy, if I had it to do over again...

Biggest takeaway from my experience is large water changes! I was pretty much bringing it down to their dorsals. And live plants, they helped a lot too.

Hope it keeps going well!