Fry in Tank, how to W/C, etc. And UNIQUE female. And tank pics.

Vengified

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So, I have several questions/concerns, and also a few pics I would like some opinions/information on, so please livebear with me, on my livebearer inquiries! :clap: Sorry it's rather long winded.

Also, before anyone asks, I do know the nitrogen cycle, my tank is fully cycled, ph 8.0, hardness 300, always 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate fluctuates between 10-40, high levels most likely due to my son sneaking extra meals to his pals. It's a 20 gallon high, 4 male guppy, 8 female guppy, 3 otocinclus, and several RCS who have berries many times, and two ghost shrimp, one ghost actually just berried too! Tanks been up for 4 months, sort of, started a 2.5gallon with two guppies, upgraded to a 10gallon within a week (thanks to members on this site helping me to learn), then son learned on 10 gallon, cracked it, and got a 20 gallon high at petco dollar sale, the 20 gallon has been up for 10 weeks now. Aquaclear 50 I think it is, the 20-50 gallon one, as well as an undergravel filter with maxi-jet 600 powerhead. Have a sponge prefilter on the Aquaclear.

So, on to the meaty bits. I just had one of my female guppies drop some fry. Not 100% positive which of the 8 females dropped, but I have it narrowed to 2, and it's most likely the one which I've had 34 days, as the one I've had 30 is still ENORMOUS, and being pestered by all the boys. I have a few large bunches of hornwort, some floating plants, driftwood, a java fern, homemade pvc hideout, and various other decorations (pics of tank at bottom), to give the fry a chance. I didnt witness the birth, just noticed a couple dozen fry floating in the hornwort. My main question is, what is the best way to go about a water change? Today is my normal water change/vac day, but I fear by lowering the tank level, the fry may get stuck above water and suffocate, or scatter and be eaten, (although my fish are way overfed thanks to a 4 year old son). So, I need to get some of the leftover food off the gravel, how should I go about this? Any tips?

I will add, I do not intend to move the fry at all. I'm not heartless, and feel for them, but I am sure I have given them as much a chance, as they would have in nature, and dont have space for multiple tanks. I do have a few places to send the fry once they grow past an inch, but until that time, I dont wanna kill off everyone in an overcrowded tank. I do have two other tanks, if it is ABSOLUTELY necessary, and have filter floss seeded to use in them, but would prefer not to use the limited space I have for more tanks. So, the fry will live and grow, with the adult guppies, 3 otos, and who knows how many shrimp.

I have read through the sticky posts as well about livebearers, and will go get some fry food tomorrow, and crushed up some super fin flakes for them already. But any other tips on how to care for them, while leaving them in the tank, and performing normal maintenance, would be great! Also note, the adults have a pretty varied diet, of tetra flakes, tetra color crisps, omega one pellets, algae seaweed (cant remember brand), frozen "emerald entree" cubes, as well as fresh blanched spinach and kale. I also supplement the shrimp and otos foraging with hikari algae wafers and hikari crab cuisine pellets. All three otos are thriving, as well as shrimp, and have been told both are MUCH more sensitive than guppies. I have lost a few guppies, one probably to the stress of being in tank cycling, one to being picked on I think, and two for completely unknown reasons. But all in there now are doing well, and seem happy.

On top of being a new frydaddy, and having questions about that, I have a female I picked up last week, and she is the strangest female I've ever seen, (mind you, I'm still a total newb with fishkeeping and guppies in particular), and thought maybe someone had thoughts or information about if she is a particular type or breed of guppy? Pics below.

Lastly, I wanted to put pics of my tank up, now that it is MOSTLY finished. There is some floating wisteria, or sprite, cant remember which, as well as some bigger leafed plant, that has some red leaves, which I have no idea what it is. Point is, they are floating in the foreground, and I had planned on sticking them to the suspended driftwood, but fear disturbing the fry, or smashing them on accident. But kind of wanted to show off how I suspended driftwood from the top of the aquarium, as well as adding 12 feet of LED strip lights to the already existing t8 fluorescent. The led lights are mounted to the lid that you flip open to feed the fish, and with the floating plants, they aren't projecting a lot right now, but they definitely make a noticeable difference.

Anyways, thanks for stopping by especially if @Colin_T and @seangee make it by, appreciate all the help, tips, opinions, information, and anything else you got for me! I'll label the pics below if it will let me:

SIDE VIEW SUSPENDED DRIFTWOOD


FRONT VIEW NO LED


FRONT VIEW WITH LED


FRONT VIEW WITH BLUE LED



FRONT VIEW WITH RED LED


UNIQUE FEMALE?



NEWBORN FRY
 

Colin_T

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The best way to water change with fry in the tank is to use a gravel cleaner and put that in the tank then suck on the end of the hose. But don't get tank water in your mouth, it's gross :)

As the water level drops the plants will go down as well and the fry should stay in the plants.

Only do 10-20% water changes every few days for a few weeks. Then do bigger water changes.

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If you get some dry brineshrimp eggs you can hatch them out each day or every second day, and feed the nauplii (baby brineshrimp) to the adult and baby guppies. Microworms are another good food for them.

The babies should be fed as much as they can eat and should have little fat stomachs so they resemble a heavily pregnant female guppy, and they should be fed at least 4 times per day.

---------------------------
The new guppy is just a bitsa, looks like a black tail x with a blue snakeskin. However, her dorsal fin is sitting close to her body and her gill cover doesn't look right, so watch her. If she starts scratching or if she gets a cream/ grey patch on her back or body, then post another pic and get ready to treat her for a protozoan infection.

The tank looks good tho. I would put some narrow vallis along the back to provide a green wall for the ornaments in front. The hornwort appears to be doing well and makes a great hiding place for the babies :)

The more fry you rear up, the more money you will make and the sooner you can buy that big tank ;)
But you will also be able to choose some nice healthy young for your future breeding program, just be sure to mix bloodlines in each tank. Keep the young females and buy in males, or vice versa. Personally I prefer to keep the females and let them mature in a tank without males. Then find a nice male, quarantine him and when he is clean, put him with the girls and wait for the babies :)
 

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So, I have several questions/concerns, and also a few pics I would like some opinions/information on, so please livebear with me, on my livebearer inquiries! :clap: Sorry it's rather long winded.

Also, before anyone asks, I do know the nitrogen cycle, my tank is fully cycled, ph 8.0, hardness 300, always 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and nitrate fluctuates between 10-40, high levels most likely due to my son sneaking extra meals to his pals. It's a 20 gallon high, 4 male guppy, 8 female guppy, 3 otocinclus, and several RCS who have berries many times, and two ghost shrimp, one ghost actually just berried too! Tanks been up for 4 months, sort of, started a 2.5gallon with two guppies, upgraded to a 10gallon within a week (thanks to members on this site helping me to learn), then son learned on 10 gallon, cracked it, and got a 20 gallon high at petco dollar sale, the 20 gallon has been up for 10 weeks now. Aquaclear 50 I think it is, the 20-50 gallon one, as well as an undergravel filter with maxi-jet 600 powerhead. Have a sponge prefilter on the Aquaclear.

So, on to the meaty bits. I just had one of my female guppies drop some fry. Not 100% positive which of the 8 females dropped, but I have it narrowed to 2, and it's most likely the one which I've had 34 days, as the one I've had 30 is still ENORMOUS, and being pestered by all the boys. I have a few large bunches of hornwort, some floating plants, driftwood, a java fern, homemade pvc hideout, and various other decorations (pics of tank at bottom), to give the fry a chance. I didnt witness the birth, just noticed a couple dozen fry floating in the hornwort. My main question is, what is the best way to go about a water change? Today is my normal water change/vac day, but I fear by lowering the tank level, the fry may get stuck above water and suffocate, or scatter and be eaten, (although my fish are way overfed thanks to a 4 year old son). So, I need to get some of the leftover food off the gravel, how should I go about this? Any tips?

I will add, I do not intend to move the fry at all. I'm not heartless, and feel for them, but I am sure I have given them as much a chance, as they would have in nature, and dont have space for multiple tanks. I do have a few places to send the fry once they grow past an inch, but until that time, I dont wanna kill off everyone in an overcrowded tank. I do have two other tanks, if it is ABSOLUTELY necessary, and have filter floss seeded to use in them, but would prefer not to use the limited space I have for more tanks. So, the fry will live and grow, with the adult guppies, 3 otos, and who knows how many shrimp.

I have read through the sticky posts as well about livebearers, and will go get some fry food tomorrow, and crushed up some super fin flakes for them already. But any other tips on how to care for them, while leaving them in the tank, and performing normal maintenance, would be great! Also note, the adults have a pretty varied diet, of tetra flakes, tetra color crisps, omega one pellets, algae seaweed (cant remember brand), frozen "emerald entree" cubes, as well as fresh blanched spinach and kale. I also supplement the shrimp and otos foraging with hikari algae wafers and hikari crab cuisine pellets. All three otos are thriving, as well as shrimp, and have been told both are MUCH more sensitive than guppies. I have lost a few guppies, one probably to the stress of being in tank cycling, one to being picked on I think, and two for completely unknown reasons. But all in there now are doing well, and seem happy.

On top of being a new frydaddy, and having questions about that, I have a female I picked up last week, and she is the strangest female I've ever seen, (mind you, I'm still a total newb with fishkeeping and guppies in particular), and thought maybe someone had thoughts or information about if she is a particular type or breed of guppy? Pics below.

Lastly, I wanted to put pics of my tank up, now that it is MOSTLY finished. There is some floating wisteria, or sprite, cant remember which, as well as some bigger leafed plant, that has some red leaves, which I have no idea what it is. Point is, they are floating in the foreground, and I had planned on sticking them to the suspended driftwood, but fear disturbing the fry, or smashing them on accident. But kind of wanted to show off how I suspended driftwood from the top of the aquarium, as well as adding 12 feet of LED strip lights to the already existing t8 fluorescent. The led lights are mounted to the lid that you flip open to feed the fish, and with the floating plants, they aren't projecting a lot right now, but they definitely make a noticeable difference.

Anyways, thanks for stopping by especially if @Colin_T and @seangee make it by, appreciate all the help, tips, opinions, information, and anything else you got for me! I'll label the pics below if it will let me:

SIDE VIEW SUSPENDED DRIFTWOOD


FRONT VIEW NO LED


FRONT VIEW WITH LED


FRONT VIEW WITH BLUE LED



FRONT VIEW WITH RED LED


UNIQUE FEMALE?



NEWBORN FRY
How do you get your hornwort that nice? Mine all melt off!
 

NickAu

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Except for the pineapple and spongebob I like it.

Go to one of those cheap stores and buy some fine mesh bags about 2 dollars for 5, stick one on the hose...... You get the idea.
 

Colin_T

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Get hornwort from a warm water tank. If you get it from a cold water pond, it falls apart when you put it in warm water. Alternatively buy it during summer so it is warm water.
 
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@mikey11 yea, I've read that fry in a bare tank specifically for fry is the way to go, but I'm not after the fry specifically for selling or breeding with intent of characteristics or anything. Most the reason I have females at all, is for the boys to bug them, instead of literally ripping each other apart. Somehow I have all a**hole boys. My wife literally HATES this one that's half black with an orange tail fin, like a girls tail fin. Think they refer to them as round fins or something? Which, actually ended up with him as an accident, meant to get a girl...

@FroFro I didnt do anything special really for my hornwort. Bought at the local mom and pop fish store, the one place locally that seems fairly decent compared to the two chain stores. Brought it home, THOROUGHLY rinsed in lukewarm water, kind of "wiping" the strands, hoping to pull any stray needles off. Then undid the lead bands they use for weight, and also undid the rubber bands holding bunches together, and cleaned the dirt or whatever crud was wedged in there, out of it. Then just put the rubber band back on loosely, and sort of twisted the rubber band around an airline tube suction cup thing with the little clip, and positioned it where I wanted it. I lost quite a few needles at first, and still do if I move it, but if left alone, dont see any falling off.

@Colin_T Speaking of hornwort, as mentioned above, since I hook it to a suction cup to hold it in place, that's why I was worried about suffocating the guppy fry. However many of them have found my "shrimp hidey hole" I constructed, and are chilling in there. You said that girl is a "bitsa" ? Is that the type? I'm so newb... As for her dorsal fin, most of the time, most of the guppies fins are back like that, as that particular spot, is their "sweet spot" for current, not too strong, not too weak, so it seems they fold down a bit when swimming against it. If she's in her resting spot, it pops up, same as the others, but I will watch her closely, just to be sure. My vigilance and awareness is constantly increasing. As well as paranoia... Just in case, I have posted 11 more pics of her below, from all the angles I could actually get a shot of her in, shes a very active fishy! She has been going after babies today, though I havent seen her succeed, the ones in there are SO QUICK! I am amazed at how fast those tiny buggers go! But ya, the purple tail girl, seems like that one side, where you said her gill flap looks weird, I think it's just a shiny side. She seems to have a shimmer that shows up a bit more than some of the other girls, though some others have a shimmer as well. Hopefully the pics will help?

From what I gather browsing forums, is most people find bum fish even more often than I do, from big chain stores, with a lot of people saying they expect 50% fatality! I'm nowhere near that, plus my Otos and shrimp are happy and healthy, so I must be doing something halfway decent.

Lastly, you said "narrow valis" is that valisneria? I'm not sure what the one plant I have floating is, but I think it might have the same effect. Of course, I dont recall what valisneria looks like. I have included a few pictures of my unknown plant, maybe someone knows what it is? It looks nice in any case.

Anywho, if you think my new girl needs treatment of some sort, let me know. Hopefully not, cuz it's a money sink, especially if she didnt make it, but I have to try nonetheless. Especially since shes my most unique girl. I will say though, my blonde with orange tail is SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO FAT, I think she gonna dump 5,000 fry, if she doesnt burst first! But I got a soft spot for her too. If them dang boys would just leave her alone though....

Couldnt resist, had to put some pics up of the super fat girl lol





And the purple tail and the plants -














 

Colin_T

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The baby fish should drop out of the plants if the water level drops and the plants stay. But that will make them more likely to become food. Small 10% water changes will help and in a couple of weeks they will be bigger and won't need the plants as much. Then you can do bigger water changes again.

If the fish is holding her fin down when swimming into a current that is fine and nothing to worry about.

The plant you are holding looks like a Ludwigia species, possibly Ludwigia natans.

Yes Vallis is short for Vallisneria. the first pic in the following link shows some really nice narrow Vallis. It's the long straight plant that consists of the majority of the plants in the tank. There is a couple of plants near the middle with round leaves that are called Moneywort.
http://www.fishforums.net/threads/hi-im-new.448583/#post-3792581

Bitsa is simply a nickname for bits of this and bits of that, a mongrel so to speak.
 
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Vengified

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That vallisneria "grove" or wall or whatever you would call it, is really nice! I have wanted a way to hide filter, powerhead, heater, etc. Obviously, since I went all out on suspending a piece of driftwood right in front of the powerhead lol. That piece just looked right to do it with anyways. But ya, dont wanna put a sticker on the back of the tank, because quite often we view it from behind as well, but with those tall grassy plants, we could still see if someone's behind them, but they would also cover up tubes and wires from the front view. I'll check and see if I have any around here at a store or if I need to order with some frogbit. Also, thanks for the Ludwigia identification, I'm sure its correct, since I saw that listed as one of the options where I purchased the plant, it just didnt have a sticker on the plant.

The nickname "bitsa" makes sense, kinda silly. I just thought it was weird how she had a big tail. I guess though, I have some boys that have little round tails like girls, so why wouldn't there be girls with boy tails.

I went and got a battery powered transfer pump, since we just got a Harbor Freight here in town, it was only $9 too! Wiped it down with a mild bleach solution, then soaked it in treated water before I stuck it in tank, just in case. Makes it SUPER easy to water change. Now I just gotta figure out how to gravel vac, while protecting the impeller, which is right at the end, and exposed, but still actually get crud out of the tank. :book:

One last thing, is it common, or ever an occurrence, that a female guppy gives birth, then goes kind of lethargic, then you wake up the next morning and find her dead under driftwood? Because that happened, possibly. I may have been incorrect on which of the guppies dropped, and maybe the one was younger and it was her first drop, and then she got all slow and just hovered near the top of the water, not gasping, but just below the surface, and wasnt moving a lot, and then the next morning I got up, and she had passed on. Neither she, nor anyone, had any issues before the fry appeared, and no new issues have arisen in the past 48 hours either. I did test water and nitrates were high 40-60ppm, as usual after a week, and did a water change last two days. I am not positive, but I think nitrates get high quickly, because there is crud in the gravel, and I've been working a quarter of the tank each water change, trying to deep clean the gravel. Not the last two times, but before that. The last two changes on the last two days, have been about 15% changes, not stirring deep into gravel at all.

Sorry, I rambled on... but ya, so do you ever seem to lose a guppy who may have recently given birth?
 

Colin_T

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Use a gravel cleaner (like the one in the following link) to get the gunk out of the gravel. You use it to drain the water out and clean the substrate at the same time.
https://www.about-goldfish.com/aquarium-cleaning.html

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Nitrates build up as a result of food and fish. The more fish and the more food going into the tank, the faster the nitrates go up. If your nitrates are going up to 60ppm in a week, then do bigger water changes or do them more often.
eg: If you normally do a 30% water change each week, try a 50% each week and see how it goes. If it keeps going up quickly then do a 50% twice a week. However, due to the baby fish in the tank, just do a 10-20% each day or every second day until they are bigger, then do bigger water changes.

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One last thing, is it common, or ever an occurrence, that a female guppy gives birth, then goes kind of lethargic, then you wake up the next morning and find her dead under driftwood?
Unfortunately yes, it happens all the time due to guppies being such a weak fish these days. It is usually young females having their first batch and they have complications and the fish dies. If the young females are allowed to mature without males, and they can reach at least 6 months (preferably 1 year) before they breed, they have fewer issues.
 
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Thanks Colin, I am sad that I lost another fish, but good to know it's possible with young females. The one that went belly up, seemed pretty small, and didnt get very big either. Another one is sort of acting the same now. I'll have to watch her. I think she may have dropped fry too. I have three very large females, and I'm assuming they are older based on size and body shape, so hopefully they dont have the same issues.

As far as gravel vacuums, I have one, just a standard suck on the end of the hose one. I have used it many times. I was trying to figure out how to use my new battery operated one, to accomplish the same thing. I know they make power ones with special "collection" bags to gather the gunk, but I'm sure they have the impeller mounted somewhere other than the end of the stick. So that's what I meant about getting the gravel with the new one.

The nitrates getting high I figured was from overfeeding and/or decaying food and waste buried in gravel, which is why I was trying to thoroughly clean the gravel in sections each week. I always get the surface gunk regardless, but had been stuffing the gravel vac down as far as it would go, and stirring up the gravel, in one area of the tank each time, trying to get it totally clean, in just that one area of the tank, as to not destroy all my bacteria. But for now, I will just do the small changes.

This is a link to the water pump I just got, that I'm working on a way of making an attachment to protect the impeller, so I can use this battery operated one. It is nice though, even nicer for refilling the tank, so I dont have to lift buckets and slowly dump them in the tank.

https://m.harborfreight.com/battery-operated-liquid-transfer-pump-63847.html?utm_referrer=direct/not provided

63847_I.jpg
 

Colin_T

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The battery syphons and ones with the mesh bag are not very good. When you gravel clean the tank you want to remove the gunk from the water. The bags sit in the tank and the debris collects in it and the water passes thru it. It allows all the really fine microscopic particles and organisms to pass thru the mesh bag and go back into the tank.

A nice simple gravel cleaner removes the gunk, micro-organisms and some water. To use them you start the water syphoning out the hose and into a bucket. You can kink the hose a bit to slow the flow rate. Then push the plastic tube into the gravel and lift it up. The gravel circulates in the tube and drops down while the dirt and debris gets drawn out with some water. Then you move the gravel cleaner across a couple of inches and push it into some more gravel. Lift, allow gravel to circulate and drop, them push it down into another post. With a bit of practice you can clean half a tank in the same time it takes to drain half the water out. Then you refill the tank and do the rest of the gravel when you do the next water change.
 
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Yea, that's pretty much what I've been doing, except a quarter of the tank at a time. It has been REALLY nasty. Even going slow, with everything off, I end up with a ton of debris floating around for 15-20 minutes. I know that's bad, which is why I'm trying to get it all out. I've been tempted to put fish in a holding tank, and take out the UGF, and take about half the gravel and rinse it, to get rid of the overfeeding gunk, and who knows what under the ugf plates... I do like the bit of flow I get from the powerhead now that I have a spray bar on it, and the fact that I have a back up filter, but I dunno if that's what's causing my gunk or not.

Also, do you ever intervene with your fish chasing? As in my big fat blonde female, normally gets chased a little, as do any of the females. But the last couple days, she ends up with all 4 males, chasing her way faster, to where she is darting and zig zagging all over the tank. She doesnt isolate herself, or act sick, when they do leave her alone, and she does forage for food on substrate and decor, while they chase her, and even when they dont. So she seems normal. I would move her to my little 2.5g tank to birth, but I fear that would stress her more than being chased in the big one? I would drain water from the main tank, and use a filter floss I have seeded and some plants, but I dont want to cause her an abortion, and I dont wanna put four males in a little tank. Do you think she is ok since she seems normal when not being chased? I would guess she would hide and isolate herself if she was really stressed? As I've seen the other females hide in occasion, and there are lots of spots to hide.
 

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There shouldn't be fine gunk floating around after you use a gravel cleaner. How thick is the gravel on the undergravel filter? It needs to be at least 2 inches but no more than 4 inches. You can push the gravel cleaner tube down until it hits the u/g filter plates and hold it there until the water comes out clear. When it is on the filter plates it should suck up the gunk that has settled underneath the filter plates and should reduce the amount of fine gunk floating around the tank after.

One option would be to get an external power filter and put the intake tube down the undergravel uplift tube. The power filter would draw water through the gravel, under the plates and into the power filter where the fine stuff would be trapped in the filter material. You would still have to gravel clean the tank but there should be less fine gunk under the plates and it would reduce the fine gunk in the water after you clean the gravel. A HOB or external canister filter would be fine for this purpose. You would use the power filter to run the u/g filter instead of using an airpump or powerhead.

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I never had problems with fish chasing each other, although we did have an issue in the shop with some cardinal tetras and wild caught Melanotaenia boesemani rainbowfish. The rainbows herded the cardinals into a corner and started eating them. It was fascinating to watch but pretty expensive, and we had to intervene and separate them.

If a fish is being harassed constantly by the males, then move her into another tank. But don't lift her out with a net if she is pregnant. Herd her slowly into a bucket and scoop her out and move her into the other tank while she is in the bucket of water. Make sure the new tank is a reasonable size so she doesn't stress out, and have lots of plants in it.
 
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Thanks for the advice @Colin_T , I know it's been ages since I been on, but life besides the fishes has been very busy with family deaths and memorials, trips, and family coming to visit.

I never thought of using a HOB down the UGF tube, instead of a power head! I do want a canister filter, but wife wont let me spend that kind of dough right now, since I've spent quite a bit last few months getting stuff set up. I do have two HOB, though both in use, one on that 20g, as well as the 10g I replaced finally. In fact, I've now moved all my shrimp out of the 20g, along with some of the fry, to the 10g. I went and got a gourami, to see if I had better luck with one of those, and maybe the guppy stock I was getting was just no good....

... and now today, my Neon Blue Dwarf Gourami, Tsunami, is on his way out I'm afraid... I read about compatibility, environmental needs, etc, before picking him out, and was excited and figured he would be a great fit. What I did not do, is stumble upon the thousands of posts and threads and websites, about DGIV, which I believe is what he possibly ended up with. Started with stringy poo, faded color, lethargy, moved on to no poo, EXTREME lethargy, lesions, barely able to swim to top to breath, and very gray coloring. It's so sad! Two days ago he was happy and healthy and swimming with the guppies, and today, hes in a breeder, close to the surface, so he can breath and be comfortable somewhat. I dont have the heart to euthanize another one, and I dont think he has more than an hour or two anyways. I think my blonde with orange tail guppy female fell in love with him too, cuz she has been right next to him for the past two days, and even now, as he is in the breeder, she wont leave his side.

So, if you are still around @Colin_T do you have any suggestions, on a "centerpiece" fish, whom is hardy, like TRULY hardy, (not inbred guppy used to be hardy), will fit in a 20gallon, as the lone specimen of their species, and wont kill guppy adults, or otocinclus? I know nearly no fish is "shrimp safe" which is why I put them in the 10g for a bit, to rebuild colony somewhat, and then I'll put more back in the 20g, knowing that some may get eaten, as well as some babies. although my hornwort has nearly taken over the entire tank at this point...

Anyways, any advice from anyone would be great! I thought about the sparkling croaking gourami, but I dont think it would like my water, as it is so hard, and high ph. Also, dont worry, I used filter floss I had been seeding for about 5 weeks, as well as the breeder net bag filled with gravel, and a giant bunch of hornwort, to seed the new 10g, and it cycled nearly instant, and has held the last several days at 0/0/10, and my main tank has gone down from 40 nitrate, to 10-15, I'm guessing due to plants, and maybe a way better filter, being the aquaclear 50.
 
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