Fishless Cycling Log

[degsod]

Day 17 Stats (60 hours after addition of Ammonia)
NH3 0.4
NO2 20
NO3 250

 

[waterdrop]

You've been neglecting to give us pH there degsod.

Also, when you get down to something like 0.4ppm ammonia, you might as well add ammonia again.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[degsod]

You've been neglecting to give us pH there degsod.

Also, when you get down to something like 0.4ppm ammonia, you might as well add ammonia again.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks, I will go and add some more, the pH this morning was 6.5

 

[degsod]

Day 18 Stats (12 hours after addition of Ammonia)
NH3 2
NO2 20
NO3 250

 

[degsod]

Day 19 Stats (24 hours after addition of Ammonia)
NH3 0.1
NO2 20
NO3 250

 

[waterdrop]

You've been neglecting to give us pH there degsod.

Also, when you get down to something like 0.4ppm ammonia, you might as well add ammonia again.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks, I will go and add some more, the pH this morning was 6.5

pH=6.5 (!) I think I'd be inclined to consider a large water change to hopefully get those nitrates(NO3) out of there (the nitrite(NO2) will also get reset lower) and then recharge with your pH 6.8 tap water, recharge ammonia to 4ppm and consider putting some tablespoons of baking soda in there. Can't remember what the tank volume is though. I'd be thinking 3 teaspoons per 50 liters (there are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon.) This should raise your KH measurement and then indirectly raise your pH measurement. You're running at about 84F/28C temp, right?

~~waterdrop~~

 

[degsod]

You've been neglecting to give us pH there degsod.

Also, when you get down to something like 0.4ppm ammonia, you might as well add ammonia again.

~~waterdrop~~

thanks, I will go and add some more, the pH this morning was 6.5

pH=6.5 (!) I think I'd be inclined to consider a large water change to hopefully get those nitrates(NO3) out of there (the nitrite(NO2) will also get reset lower) and then recharge with your pH 6.8 tap water, recharge ammonia to 4ppm and consider putting some tablespoons of baking soda in there. Can't remember what the tank volume is though. I'd be thinking 3 teaspoons per 50 liters (there are 3 teaspoons in a tablespoon.) This should raise your KH measurement and then indirectly raise your pH measurement. You're running at about 84F/28C temp, right?

~~waterdrop~~

Hi ,volume is approx 80 litres after displacement, and yep am running at 85F. I will do a water change tomorrow when I get home from work and will get some baking soda, baking soda is sodium bi carbonate?

Day 19 Stats 12 Hours after addition of Ammonia
NH3 2.0
NO2 20
NO3 250

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, when we are fishless cycling we can get some bicarbonate (HCO3- anions) in there to latch up with some of those protons (H+ cations) and neutralize them. pH is just a snapshot of how many of those hydrogen ions there are hanging around in the water waiting to bind with things. The leftover sodium, while not a wonderful thing to be putting in our water, is not going to cause us problems and can go out with the big water change at the end and then we of course stop putting in any baking soda.

The fishless cycling process "pushes" everything pretty hard in the sense that the aquarist is relentlessly injecting 4-5ppm of ammonia in, often every day for the majority of the time period. At the far end of the process after the Nitrospira bacteria do their thing, they are putting out Nitrogen in the form of Nitrate ions (NO3-) and Hydronium ions (H3O+) and more than 90% of it will probably try to be in that form but a small percentage of it will form water and Nitric Acid (HNO3.) Nitric Acid, being a strong acid, will push the pH downward and as you can imagine the amount this happens is not linear across the fishless cycling period but becomes stronger toward the end of the process as you get more and more Nitrospira doing their thing.. thus we see people who had little trouble maintaining a more optimal pH early in the game may come to have low pH problems near the end of the game.

Note that the "method of choice" for raising pH is completely different usually when you want to accomplish it for the sake of the bacteria versus when you want to accomplish it for the sake of the fish. The bacteria don't care how fast the pH change happens and we as users want to see a quick result, thus bicarb is a good choice. Protecting our fish from quick KH/pH changes, however, is usually an important goal in running an aquarium and so the method of choice changes over to using the very slow dissolving of CaCO3 (Calcium Carbonate), in the form of crushed coral or limestone chips, which has the dual benefit of, most importantly, being much, much slower but also of leaving a very beneficial element, Calcium, behind in the water, rather than extra Sodium, which we don't want.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[degsod]

Thanks, that explains very clearly to me. I have carried out a 90% waterchange and added Sodium bicarb to the tank and have also added ammonia to 4ppm.

The stats are

Day 20 after addition of Ammonia and bicarb of soda and 90% water change
NH3 4
NO2 0
NO3 1
pH 7.4

 

[degsod]

Day 21 (before 1 Table spoon bicarb of soda added and 4cc NH3)
NH3 0
NO2 10
NO3 1
pH 7.4

 

[waterdrop]

The day 21 test was how many hours after adding ammonia?

 

[degsod]

The day 21 test was how many hours after adding ammonia?

24 Hours, wasn't expecting it to drop so fast !! Hopefully my new test kit will turn up today (It was dispatched on Tuesday) as I only have one more NH3 test left.

 

[degsod]

New test kit arrived !!!

Day 22 (24 hour later - before 4cc NH3added)
NH3 0
NO2 0
NO3 2
pH 7.8

 

[waterdrop]

 

[degsod]

Day 23 (12 hour test)
NH3 2
NO2 Not tested
NO3 Not tested