Dying / Dead Adfs

[Sparkles13]

I own three african dwarf frogs. I got my first one in May of this year, and the other two at the end of July. I can tell the three of them apart. When i came home from the store on monday, one of the ones that i got in July was dead. I tested my water that day and for that my parameters were normal, and just passed it off as a sick ADF. Then today, i found the second one that i bought in july dead. My main concern is for my betta fish Sparkles, who also lives in this tank. She was my first fish and i have a terrible attachment to her and would be basically devastated if she died. 
 
tank size:
5 gal
temperature:
75 degrees
 
my water parameters are:
nitrate: 20-40 mg/L
nitrite: 0 ppm
hardness: 75 ppm
chlorine:0ppm
Alkalinity: 40ppm
pH: 7.0
ammonia: 25 ppm
 
fish symptoms:
before they were found dead, the frogs were doing nothing out of the ordinary
Betta fish is acting normal
last ADF is acting normal
snail is acting normal
 
water changes:
20-50 % weekly or every other week
 
tank inhabants:
1 (was 3) ADFs
1 male beta fish
1 mystery snail
 
recent additions:
my most recent addition was the two now dead frogs
 
 
the dead frogs have shown no physical differences after death. They are stretched out and very stiff. 
 
i am going to do a water change, but my main concern is wether or not sparkles the betta can catch this as well as my last ADF and my snail.
 
 

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hmm, difficult for me to figure out this one. Don't know much about ADF to be honest, am presyming they have same water and care needs as a betta?

Only thing i can see from your parameters is the ammonia being at 25 ppm. That seems very high.

Are you sure its correct at 25ppm, that amount would kill most if not all tropical species.

What test kit are you using
If dip sticks one, not recommended as very inaccurate, use liquid test kit, API ones are ok.

If readings are correct, then yes recommend to do a large water change immediately to bring down ammonia, maybe even 100% water change.

Would also recommend you do water changes every week, not every other week.

One other thing, is your tank cycled?


just realised you may have meant 0.25 ppm for ammonia! Hmm still not good although nowhere near as bad as 25ppm!!

still recommend the water change anyway.

 

[Ninjouzata]

I'm sorry I really don't know anything about ADF, and I doubt it has anything to do with the deaths but I'd still like to check on it.
Do you have a heater? The betta would be much happier at 78-82. Not sure if that is too high or not for the froggies.

 

[Shelster]

Have you been ensuring the ADFS get food? - bettas are very greedy and ADFs are very clumsy and rubbish eyesight, they may not be seeing the food before your betta scoffs it all?

I think the ammonia is due to the recent deaths, so a water change if about 90% will sort.

 

[Sparkles13]

yes. bettas and ADFs have the same care and water needs
 
I use an API liquid test kit, and when i tested for the ammonia, the color was between 0 and .25, so i went with the higher one to be safe. 
 
i did a 75% water change last night
 
I do try to water change every week, occasionally it is every 2 weeks
 
yes. my tank is cycled. its been set up since april? or so of this year. i use my own filter media, and before this have had no problems.
 
yes. there is a heater. i'm not really sure why it was reading 75 degrees last night, its usually higher, like now its at 77. 
 
and yes. the frogs are definitely getting food. i tried feeding them with the frog and tadpole bites, but the never ate that. then i started putting in shrimp flavored tank nibblers (2 every 2-3 days) and the frogs (and the snail) love these. i always watch to make sure all three frogs got at least some food. 
 
I'm just baffled at how quickly these little guys went. They were literally showing no symptoms. Is that common with ammonia poisoning? and why are my other three aquatic friends (i don't really know how to phrase that sine its a fish, frog, and snail) still alive, and will they be okay. 
 
I'm also heard or read something about the first few months with an ADF being sorta critical about whether they will survive because they are susceptible to disease at the pet store or in transit. I have tried to research this, but haven't really been able to find anything. I have seen multiple places where people's ADFs die shortly after coming home from the pet store, but i don't know anything about their tank conditions etc.
 
like i said in my earlier post, my main concern is for my other fish. I don't think i could handle losing my beta at this point in my life.

Oh yes, and thanks everyone for trying to help with your quick replies

 

[Shelster]

Hmm, not sure if this link may help?

Ever heard of chytrid fungus?

http/flippersnfins.yuku.com/topic/11316

 

[Ch4rlie]

Might seem a silly question, you do de-chlorinate the water before adding to tank?
 
Forgot to ask, did you keep all 3 frogs in the same tank?

Sorry to keep asking questions that may seem trivial to you, but this is new to me and am trying to do some research into ADF, very interesting by the way, and trying to find any possible cause as to why these deaths occurred.
 
Another question , did the ADF show any symptoms at all?
 
i.e skin discolouration, bloated, lethargy/listlessness, continuous yawning, battle wounds etc etc

One more question, what substrate do you use? gravel or sand
 
probably more questions to come...............sorry! I've now got the bit between my teeth and really, really want to find out why this happened.....

 

[Sparkles13]

yes. i dechlorinate with API stress coat, which i have always used. 
 
I have, at one point, tested just my water for chlorine before i put anything in it and its not at a high enough level to show up on a test. but i still use the dechlorinator.
 
To my knowledge, the ADFs didn't show any symptoms. I was out of town from Friday night to Monday afternoon, and the first thing i did when i got back was check on my aquatic friends. i always watch the tank until ive seen everyone swim around a little bit. and All things were good, Then about 1-2 hours later my friend was doing something beside the tank (it sits on my desk) and he noticed that one of the frogs was face down in some of my fake plants. He knew htat the frog look strange, so he got the net and nudged the frog a little. when the little guy didn't move he was removed from the tank and flushed . Then we tested the water, and did a water change. 
 
Everything seemed fine after that. Both of the remaining frogs were active, swimming around. they were doing the things they normally do. And then last night i went to the library for a couple of hours (like 4) and when i got back the tank light was already off (its on a timer) but i didn't notice anything right away. Eventually i saw that one of the frogs had been floating at the top of the water for a while and after i adjusted things so i could see better i realized that he was dead as well.
 
both frogs have been stretched almost completely out, and very stiff when they've been found. For the first frog, he could have been dead two hours tops before he was found, and for the second it could have been much longer.
 
Their skin didn't look any different, no obvious bloating or usual spots or anything. 
 
ADFs have sort of a weird behavior in general to me, they swim up out of the water real fast to get air, and then back down. They run into the ground and the tank walls all the time because they are basically blind. but that is all normal for them. 
 
also, i have gravel substrate. 

 

[Ch4rlie]

Hmm........
 
Right, still not too sure what has happened. There seems to be several possible causes.

 
Gravel - there have been reports that frogs have choked or died from eating gravel substrate, and yes they do apparently swallow whole gravels....
 
Could possibly be a bacterial or fungal infection, although the ADF's showed no discolouration or anything......
 
Poor water quality can also be a factor but from your answers not so sure that would be the cause really as you have had them for quite a while.
 
There have been reports of experienced keepers losing ADF and no real known causes, there was one keeper who lost 8 ADF's in the space of a week 

 
Most ADF forums say that the best thing you can do in this type of situation is to try and sterilise the aquarium and start over.
 
Really wish I could find out the exact cause and provide more stronger answers for prevention for the future......sorry