Do These Cycle Boosters Actually Work?

[Bignose]

I know this is against the rules of the post as i don’t have 1st hand experience - but i would like to add that bacteria could happily live (or at least be in some suspended state) in a sealed bottle. I am no chemist / biologist but im sure it is doable.

An example (all be it a bad one) is 'Pro biotic yoghurt' that has 'good bacteria' for your stomach (i say this is a bad example, because most don't contain any such thing and is a marketing ploy. sounds familiar?!)
Another example would be vaccinations - these little glass vials don’t have to be refrigerated all the time (to my limited knowledge) but they contain bacteria that isn't DOA

In short - this has little relevance because i don't have experience, but you can’t rule them out just because they are not in a fridge!

Wow, where to begin here. Might as well start at the top:

"i would like to add that bacteria could happily live ... in a sealed bottle." Actually no, they don't. Bacteria need oxygen and an energy source to live. Without either, they die. A sealed bottle does not have a source of oxygen in it. Now, aquarium bacteria are pretty slow to grow compared to most other bacteria, and they are slow to die. But, they are not invulnerable. The media can provide food as an energy source, and can provide some oxygen, but both of those are finite. The size of the bottle is pretty limited, so the length of time the bacteria can live has to be pretty limited.

"An example ...is 'Pro biotic yoghurt' that has 'good bacteria' for your stomach" yogurt is refrigerated, which naturally slows down the bacteria processes. For that matter, yogurt is the end result of bacterial processing of milk. You can make your own yogurt by keeping some aside, and giving it more milk and oxygen. See more: http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yoghurt I know people who have kept their seed yogurt culture alive for years and years.

"Another example would be vaccinations - these little glass vials don’t have to be refrigerated all the time ... but they contain bacteria that isn't DOA" Almost all vaccinations don't contain bacteria. Some contain killed virusus. Some contain modified virusus that are significantly less harmful, but still trigger the body's immune antibodies. Some contain proteins that trigger the same kinds of immune responses. See more here: http/en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine And, for that matter, there are some vaccines that have to be kept refrigerated. See http/www.wellsphere.com/wellpage/vaccine-refrigeration

I know you put a lot of qualifiers like "(to my limited knowledge)" in there, but you may want to check some of your statements with Google or Wikipedia before just throwing them out there. And I certainly don't mean this to be taken in a personal way, or rude. I just want to encourage you to look some of this stuff up before just posting it.

 

[Bignose]

Problem is, and please don't take this the wrong way. But unless you test a lot of bottles of bacteria then your results as an individual are worthless.

Correct. Individual experiences are just anecdote, which is among the weakest form of evidence.

 

[Timmy_Bee]

I certainly don't mean this to be taken in a personal way, or rude. I just want to encourage you to look some of this stuff up before just posting it.

By no means do i take this personally. I was just trying to fuel the discussion with my limited (remarkably incorrect) ideas.

The truth is, i wouldn't trust these bottles but thought it was worthy of a good chin wag

 

[the biffster]

is it possible that the stuff
in the bottle is not the bacteria
it self but the nutrients that is
needed to feed the bacteria that
lives in the filter i have wonder
for years about this and put it down
to it just been the correct nutrients
that the filter bacteria needs to get a
good start

the biffster


i was just wondering do bacteria
survive in space

 

[Timmy_Bee]

i guess in space, they would be frozen and therefor could 'revive' themselves when they warm up? but i don't know what the vaccume would do to them - remembering Arnie's face on Total Recall...

I'm gunna go with a No, but i think with enough years evolution its possible? but having said that, with enough years of evolution, so could we...

 

[anon02]

Playing devils` advocate, isn`t it possible that microbiologists have a way to induce dormancy in bottled bacteria ? If the bacteria were suspended in a matrix of water and a form of nutrient, that might supply the limited essentials that would be required to sustain viability

 

[Timmy_Bee]

Playing devils` advocate, isn`t it possible that microbiologists have a way to induce dormancy in bottled bacteria ? If the bacteria were suspended in a matrix of water and a form of nutrient, that might supply the limited essentials that would be required to sustain viability

this was my thought - you would hope that a company like Tetra who have patents on their unique system of housing the bacteria are not just ripping you off... but many will (rightfully) disagree

 

[Curiosity101]

Would people stop saying 'playing devils advocate'. You're just asking questions because you're interested to hear if anyone can answer it and whether it'd make a difference... but it's not playing devils advocate.

devil's advocate is someone who, given a certain argument, takes a position he or she does not necessarily agree with, just for the sake of argument. In taking such position, the individual taking on the devil's advocate role seeks to engage others in an argumentative discussion process

Timmybee - Evolution doesn't really work like that. In space they would be fine (in a space ship in the correct conditions), literally floating around in space...? No most wouldn't survive and they wouldn't just go dormant. Some bacterial will freeze and just become dormant, others will freeze and are un-able to 'thaw'.

But eitherways that's not really the point here... lol.

anon - No it's not possible they induce dormancy in the bacteria at room temperature. Dormancy = lowered temperature... ie. metabolic functions are much much slower.
Or slowed growth can be cause by a lack of certain nutrients, but that tends to be specific to certain bacteria. Off the top of my head, I don't think it applies to the n-bacs we're interested in.

 

[anon02]

If bacteria (albeit not the ones we`re interested in)can live in the scalding hot, anaerobic conditions by the volcanic vents 3 miles deep in the ocean, who`s to say ?

 

[Curiosity101]

this was my thought - you would hope that a company like Tetra who have patents on their unique system of housing the bacteria are not just ripping you off... but many will (rightfully) disagree

Technically, so long as there are live bacteria in the bottle when it leaves the factory then they're covered. That's all they care about aside from sales.

Plenty of people buy it regardless of whether it's likely to work or not. They just need to make sure they can't be sued.

 

[the biffster]

just a thought some one
said about with no oxygen
well if the bacteria was suspended
in water water contains oxygen
is it not possible for it to take its
oxygen from that H2O

 

[Curiosity101]

If bacteria (albeit not the ones we`re interested in)can live in the scalding hot, anaerobic conditions by the volcanic vents 3 miles deep in the ocean, who`s to say ?

I don't think you're quite grasping the magnitude of evolution.

The bacteria living in vents didn't just 'drop in' and some were able to live there by chance. They moved over millions of years towards being able to cope with higher and higher temperatures, till eventually they ended up in the volcanic vents.

There is no way for bacteria to 'evolve' to being able to cope in space as there is no 'middle ground' for them to evolve along. It's either 'earth conditions' or 'space conditions'.

Although I would presume the first place you would start looking for bacteria that may be capable is around the poles.

just a thought some one
said about with no oxygen
well if the bacteria was suspended
in water water contains oxygen
is it not possible for it to take its
oxygen from that H2O

Yes but there is a finite amount of oxygen. And as the bacteria use it up the by product is acid. So they have less oxygen and a much lower pH. This kills them very quickly.

It's a problem people discovered when they first started trying to culture bacteria in liquids. To culture them you have to use buffers and the such. You don't just pop bacteria + media into a jar.

Edit: Plus the oxygen level, in a similar way to fish and humans. Isn't a case of 'well there is some so we'll use it ALL up before dying'. After awhile the O2 concentration becomes too low for us to take any from it. It's doesn't mean there actually isn't any.

 

[anon02]

I didn`t mention space

If you are a microbiologist telling me that you know for sure that it is not possible to suspend animation and store said bacteria in a bottle, that`ll do for me

 

[Timmy_Bee]

C101 - we are being devils advocates as stated in your quote. we are raising questions from the other side of the argument to spark a discussion.

As for evolution - i'm quite aware of 'how it works', and as for a middle ground? somewhere like the moon might be a good start, with a minimal gravitaional field and atmosphere. Im sure, out there somewhere there are more suited 'middle ground' plantes with bacteria on them, and on that theory, i would bet £5 there is some living bacteria in space. somewhere. I also bet £5 we wont find it any time soon!

In an infinately large area, over an infinite period of time, anything is (theoretically) possible, but if you want me to be the devils advocate on that point, it can easily be done.

Di i get the impression I/we are getting off topic. Sorry.

 

[Curiosity101]

I'm not technically a 'microbiologist'. Although I've done microbiology modules at uni.

And I don't claim to know everything there is to know.

I would also never say NEVER, just... as far as I know you can't. (But basing my 'as far as I know' on a decent amount of reading up on the subject.)

But yes. Whilst in theory these bottled bacteria products are possible, most manufacturers seem to care little about the science behind them and are more interesed in covering their butts legally speaking and bringing in a nice profit.

A bottled bacteria product that isn't refrigerated has no likelihood of working. There is also no true evidence to proove they work.

A refrigerated bottle bacteria product (so long as it holds the correct bacteria, a buffer, nutrients and a religiously kept to use by date), should be able to work. But again, other than biospira, there has been very little evidence to show these actually working.

Edit: It's not devils advocate when you're asking questions you don't know the answers to. Devils advocate would be if you think it could counter act my point.

And as for bacteria on the moon, as the moon being a middle ground, no...just no. I'm not even going there.

I agree that I can't see how there could possibly only be life on earth. But no... the moon is not a middle ground.