Advice Please, And A Warm Hello

[Kirsty5]

Hi all,

as the title says: a warm hello from a tropical newbie (Previously posted this in the "Welcome" section and was advised by Rusty to post here, thank you Rusty!).

I used to breed fantails many years back, and also used to keep marines very successfully - all occupants to the tank were very happy, and therefore, so was I. It was a pleasure to look after them, and a challenge at times, even taking on fish that many said were doomed, but because of this, helped them have some form of life, (one of them being a rescued urchin clingfish who I taught to use a feeding box , I loved that fish ).

Yet, here I find myself in at the deep end! Totally new to tropicals!!!

I finally took the plunge again, yes, I've been lonely without my fish and tank, (although very busy with 5 dogs, my other half and running my own business!), I was craving fishkeeping again although promising myself I would never do this again, I finally answered my other half's question: "What do you want for your birthday?", I replied: "A fish tank".........

I decided to keep it small, and decided to go for a fish that I could not be silly with and add more, and more, and more, and oh dear, I need a larger tank, and so on!

So, I researched, and found the Betta Splendens - pretty and sad at the same time, beautiful and oh so "I need to be on my own!". My other half bought me a 35 litre tank, I have planted it, loved it, tested it, and stared lovingly at it for hours, , but am now slightly confused and need your assistance!

I know about cycling tanks, and have been cycling mine, I absolutely disagree with cycling with livestock, so it has been fishless, but its been years since I have done this and need clarification. I have had my ammonia spike and the readings are now 0mg, nitrites have been pretty constant recently at 5mg, nitrates have started off low, (as expected), spiked at 160mg, then flew down to 10mg, (I checked it twice as couldn't believe the massive and speedy drop), then today nitrate is reading at 80mg.

Now to my questions, its been a long time and need your help!

Can you get two nitrate spikes?

Should I carry out any water changes to assist the nitrite and nitrate levels since I have had my ammonia spike?

Many thanks in advance, and again, a big hello to all

 

[elisew]

Hi kirtsy and welcome to TFF

You would have to do water changes as your ammonia and nitrites should always be at 0, nitrates are a different thing as most tap water will contain a reading of nitrate but I believe anything up to around 40ppm can be considered ok.
I'm afraid I can't give you the best advice but there are plenty of members who can, waterdrop will hopefully pick up on this post and help you out.

Well done on choosing the fish less cycle to get back into the addictive world of fishkeeping

 

[Vidster]

Welcome back to fish keeping Kirsty. I am just a few weeks back myself from a loooong break


This guide will answer most of your questions.

 

[Kirsty5]

Hi Elisew,

thanks for your welcome!

I know I need to carry out water changes, but don't want to carry them out yet in case I upset the apple cart. I keep reading conflicting reports as to the fishless cycle and water changes, but think the only way I can reduce nitrites and nitrates is to do so, but hey, its been a few years and as there are no fish suffering, I know I can leave it until I am sure!

Thanks to all who reply

 

[Kirsty5]

Thanks Vidster!

Will have a proper nose, but looks like I need to spike my ammonia again from what you say!

Welcome back after your break too!

 

[Curiosity101]

I think elisew mis-read your post and thinks your fish in cycling... it may have been the

I decided to keep it small, and decided to go for a fish that I could not be silly with and add more, and more, and more

That threw her. lol.

Anyhoo.

There isn't really such a thing as a nitrate spike normally to be honest.
You get your initial ammonia spike as you introduce it.
Followed by your nitrite spike as the speed at which it is being converted from ammonia speeds up (as bacterial growth is exponential I'm sure you can see why)
Then it should be followed by a seemingly slow increase in nitrates (not because it's being converted in a different pattern/speed to the ammonia, but because our test kits aren't as sensitive. So if it 'spiked' ie. rose by 5ppm in a day then you wouldn't really see a massive change on the test kit).

Eitherways... how are you cycling? Artifical adding of ammonia in a measured amount? Or the old 'dead prawn', 'rotting food' etc?
You just need to keep topping up ammonia as it drops off (we normally recommend cycling for up to 4-5ppm), and as soon as you're seeing 0,0 for ammonia and nitrite 12 hours after you put the ammonia in then you're set for going to buy fish.

In your situation I wouldn't have thought you'll need to cycle for up to 4-5ppm (2-3 should probably be sufficient), especially if your initial inhabitant will be a single male betta. However if you do want to fully stock the tank as soon as your cycle was done then do stick to the 4-5ppm guideline.

See my sig for the proper link to the fishless cycle guide on here.

The only time you should need to do a water change while fishless cycling is if the cycle stalls. This can happen at really low phs or when nitrates are really high. But if your cycle seems to be progressing fine then just let it do it's thing.

 

[elisew]

Sorry, I did indeed misread

I'm just going to sit in the corner and watch now

 

[Curiosity101]

Sorry, I did indeed misread

I'm just going to sit in the corner and watch now

Hey I did have to read twice too. I was like fishless cycle... decided on a betta...wait a second. So you aren't the only one. But I firmly blame my cold ridden brain (Although this is some sort of super cold that comes with a fever...I swear when I was a kid all a cold was was a sniffle)

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to TFF Kirsty.
You need to add ammonia regularly during a fishless cycle. Daily dosing to return zero ammonia levels to around 4 or 5 ppm is the usual recommendation. It is not a one time thing. Nitrates will not spike but will continue to rise until removed by a water change, or by plant growth. On the freshwater side, there is no such thing as a denitrating reaction. We simply cannot establish the right conditions in a real world aquarium to have it happen. On this side of the hobby, nitrates are removed most often by water changes. It is possible to see a drop in nitrates if you are not very careful about mixing your test chemicals. The tests we use have chemicals that precipitate in the bottle before you get around to using them. Unless you carefully shake the bottles for at least as long as the instructions suggest, you will get a low reading. I double the recommended times to get more consistent results from my nitrate testing.
You can expect to have about 3.6 ppm of nitrates result from each 1 ppm of ammonia that you have added to the tank. The resulting multiplication can add up to quite a large sum before the ammonia and nitrites are being processed well. For more detailed instructions on a fishless freshwater cycle, follow the link in my signature. Of the methods described, I prefer the add and wait approach myself.

 

[Kirsty5]

A big thanks to all, my mind is now sure what I need to be doing and thank you!

Thank you OldMan47, I agree with the test kits, the API one for Nitrate is particularly fussy about being shaken for certain periods of time

Well, back to cyclying I go with the knowledge I now definitely know what I am doing and what I should achieve before "Fingers" come to join me!

 

[OldMan47]

I am missing the point on "fingers" but must assume you know what you are talking about. Best of luck to you and your cycle.

 

[Curiosity101]

I am missing the point on "fingers" but must assume you know what you are talking about. Best of luck to you and your cycle.

I think it may well be the name of the future betta..?

 

[RustedKnight]

I am missing the point on "fingers" but must assume you know what you are talking about. Best of luck to you and your cycle.

I think it may well be the name of the future betta..?

Yes Fingers is indeed the name for her future Betta, I think it's a pretty cool name tbh.