The Start Orf A New Begining!

[waterdrop]

Good morning Tuppers,

In your mind, try to separate the tank water topics more as two more or less completely different things: the bacteria-optimized fishless cycling water and the fish-optimized cycled water. Remember from my Oct 17 post up there that the whole baking-soda dKH and pH stats we have been creating are for the bacteria and will go away. We already determined that probably your tap water dKH of 4 will be sufficient to keep pH up just fine for your fish-optimized aquarium water that will come after the fishless cycle is over.

I see your crazy nitrate testing has decided to swing wildly down now, all the more reason to basically ignore it. The ammonia and nitrite results seem good and that's what's important.

~~waterdrop~~
ps. I have no idea what a sludgebuster is, I assume that's to give us a morning laugh?

 

[Tuppers]

I will try to in future I think I am getting a little excited that it seems to be working!!!

Yipppeee!!!!!

SLUDGEBUSTER allegedly breaks down fish waste so that it is easier for the filter to deal with or something like that!!

 

[waterdrop]

...and here I thought you were out catching bandits or directing traffic, probably swinging a real billyclub or whatever those "eminently civilized" british weapons are but you are at home talking tropical fish...

sludgebuster! you gotta be kidding! What do we think those whitish bacterial clouds are! Breaking down waste is one thing our clouds of heterotrophic bacteria are great at! They -never- need any help!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Schmill]

Only time I've ever heard of SludgeBuster was as a product that I used to add to my garden pond to, well, break down the sludge, but obviously a pond is a much less 'controlled' environment I had to cope with leaves, grass, insects, and whatever else the birds used to drop into it. If it's the same thing I'd think that it wouldn't be needed for an Aquarium, as Waterdrop days, thats exactly what our well controlled bacteria is supposed to do

 

[rabbut]

The sludge buster isn't needed, it just another "snake oil" that manufacturers will sell you to try an make money out of people starting out in the hobby that don't know enough to realise that using the product would be potentialy dangerous. Anything that removes toxins or solids much convert them to another form if you aren't physically taking them out. To break the sludge down, it must release some chemical into the water colunm. I bet that chemical is toxic in sufficient levels (I don't know what it converts to, so I can't say for deffinate) and that makes it potentialy dangerous.

The KH after your big waterchange at the end of the cycle will drop back to that of your tap water When this happens, it will be low enough for most fish, and high enough to keep the pH stable

HTH
Rabbut

 

[Tuppers]

Well good afternoon to all again for the latest update!!!

Well it is now DAY 8 after the reset!

I tested the water this afternoon at 15:15 and got the following:

PH 8.0-8.5
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.3
Nitrate 10-20
dKH Off the scale > 16

It looks like its taking around 24 hours to get the Nitrites back down to 0.3 after I have added the ammonia so hopefully there are some loveley n-bacs forming!! I have added the 2.5ml and we shall see where we get to tomorrow!!

Please can i ask some more questions!! I am due to get some java moss to I to HOPE place on my piece of bog wood, can I ask what do i do? never had Java moss before and a friend has said that he doesnt want it and that I can have it!! Great I say but I dont want to ruin my cycle!! I am thinking that I should do a bucket of water and sit it in there for a few days?? Like a quarantine?? When its clear do i just put the moss on the wood and away it goes?? Any tips?

Cheers and thanks for all the help!

 

[waterdrop]

Hi Tuppers!

I believe very thin (dark, if you can find it but its hard) nylon fishing line is the preferred material for tying down java moss to bogwood since cloth thread will quickly disintegrate prior to the moss roots getting themselves attached. Some people use rubber bands and just remove the bands when they later break. They say they find that easier than attempting to tie fishing line. Also of note is that java moss can be tangled in the roots of other plants to anchor it, or there are such things as java moss tiles that can look like a nice square of lawn eventually!

If you want to refine your intro to your stats each day, I'd suggest "Day 8: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L" except, I forget, was it possible to pinpoint when the fishless cycle actually started so we have the day more accurate, or was there some complication.. seems there was.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Miss Wiggle]

i just use normal all purpose sewing thread to tie it down, never had any problems with it disintegrating quickly or anything like that.

 

[waterdrop]

practically perfect practical

 

[Tuppers]

Will amend the intro WD!!!!

I will try and source some fishing line!! There will be some fun! Or I will try my mother I know she will have some somewhere!!!

Cheers for the help guys!!

Regarding when I started, couldnt tell you! Forgot to write it down as i had completely forgot about this forum!! I would suggest just after my birthday 28/08/08 but then I really hadnt added any ammonia till around three weeks prior to seeking help! with was about I would say 16/09/08 so your guess is as good as mine!!

Thanks again!

 

[Tuppers]

Hi Guys been looking at THINKFISH.CO.UK and it says I can have upto 90cm in fish in my little aquarium!! Surely this is not correct? I thought 10 neons and some shrimp would be more than enough for my tank!!

Also when the cycling is finished how many fish can/should I add at the begining?

Cheers

 

[rabbut]

16G = 16 inches for the first 6 months, and upto double that with good filters, good maintanance and small fish after that. That gives a maximum stocking once established of 80cm (40cm for the first 6 months) Not that far out, but many consider two inches per gallon as pushing it even with tetra sized fish...

 

[waterdrop]

Many here feel that those automated fish stocking web widgets are not the best way to go with your stocking planning. They are fun to play around with and can be taken as a tiny bit of input but beginners (and I'm making assumptions here about true beginners who are thinking about their first community tank) are usually wise to start with the one inch per US gallon guideline that rabbut mentions. With gravel etc. you could probably be thinking about 14 or 15 inches of fish body (fins don't count, luckily!) Now, what does this 14 inches of fish mean? Well, its referring to the max you would more or less build up to over the first year (bear with me.) Even though the 5ppm "qualification" of your filter will allow you to fully stock the tank immediately, not many people actually do that. The reason is usually because of the second part of stocking planning. Usually beginners find (often after some other species disqualify) that there are a few species they want that the experienced fishkeepers will tell them are "sensitive" or "a bit delicate" (by which they mean that we don't know what the h**l kills them but they don't like tanks that are not six months or whatever months old!) Common ones are neon tetras, "oto"s (which are tiny algae eaters whose full name I can never spell), and plenty of other species. Or sometimes people want their tank to mature more before they put in expensive "centerpiece" fish like angels or german blue rams or such. Anyway, the list gets left with a few hardy species that the beginner feels more confident with and that subset of the stocking forms a good "first wave." This approach also seems good for the filter too, in my opinion, because even though it "qualifies" as having passed its fishless cycling tests, its still really a bit fragile and "green around the gills" so to speak. The filter will continue to mature and often people don't call it "mature" until 6 months, and "fully mature" at one year.

OK Tuppers, there's your thick paragraph to read and question tonight!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tuppers]

Day 9: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good evening to all again for the latest update!!!

I tested the water this evening at 19:20 hrs and got the following:

PH 8.0-8.5
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.1-0.3 (closer to 0.3 but def less than)
Nitrate 20 (not sure about this one colour was around this mark but no definate colour to match I would say slightly more than!)
dKH Off the scale > 16

It seems to be going well! Added 2.5ml at that time so I will def be able to test nearer to 24 hours tomorrow! See you all then!

WD when you mentioned Neons below what did you mean? they are not a beginner fish?

Cheers

P.S. looking at getting a larger tank when back from CUBA still deciding on which way to go saltwater or not Just not sure!!

 

[waterdrop]

The general advice is that Neon Tetras are sensitive (in some way that we or I don't understand technically) and are better off being introduced to a tank that has been cycled for about 6 months. Having experienced neons being fragile years ago and being a "re-beginner" myself now, I stick by this advice myself.

(experienced aquarists will have some more comments on this probably (I've heard a few) but that's the short answer)

~~waterdrop~~