The Start Orf A New Begining!

[rabbut]

Good quality neons are very hardy indeed, but the majority of trade neons are't that hardy due to over and inbreeding within the species, so they often won't last 5 mins...

If you can get some good neons from a quality source, get them in first, otherwise, leave them for a while

All the best
Rabbut

 

[Tuppers]

Day 10: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good morning to all again for the latest update!!! Sorry for the delay didnt have time to post last night! day ten is refering to yesterday will post later for todays results which is day 11.

I tested the water yesterday evening at 19:20 hrs and got the following:

PH 8.0-8.5
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.3-0.8 (in between but this was closer to the 24 hour mark!)
Nitrate 20-50 (AGAIN not sure about this one colour was around this mark but no definate colour to match)
dKH Off the scale > 16

It still seems to be going well! Added 2.5ml at that time.

I also tested this morning at 07:20 and got the following:

Ammonia < 0.6 (def less than 0.6 but just a little colour so shows that ammonia is almost being done in 12 hours)
Nitrite 1.6-3.3 (Not sure about this reading the Nitrites and Nitrate readings are so hard to tell sometimes!!)

Right my filter media finally arrived for my Aquaball so the filter media has come out of my stinray and the aquaball is now in the tank! I just hope this helps and doesnt mess anything up!? I will be back later with the test results.

Cheers

 

[Miss Wiggle]

fingers crossed for the media transfer

 

[Tuppers]

fingers crossed for the media transfer

Thanks Miss Wiggle!

 

[waterdrop]

 

[Tuppers]

Day 11: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good evening to all again for the latest update!!!

I tested the water yesterday evening at 19:30 hrs and got the following:

PH 8.0-8.5
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.1 (prob just a little higher but very close to!)
Nitrate 5-10 (AGAIN not sure about this one colour was around this mark but no definate colour to match)
dKH Off the scale > 16

It still seems to be going well! Nothing changed I think in the cycle so hopefully the new filter is doing the job i need it to do!! Added 2.5ml ish at that time def less around the 2ml mark. I do think though I maybe adding a little less than I was in the earlier days as I have done some calcs and I should be adding around 1.8-2.0 ml of ammonia to get to 4ppm! Hope I am doing the right thing in reducing the ammonia amount?

The aquaball filter has far bigger filter sponges than the stinray so would I be right in assuming that means a larger colony of bacteria meaning that the amount of fish I am thinking about adding should be ok and then some? will there be enough waste from the fish to keep the colony alive?

Cheers

 

[Tuppers]

Day 12: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good evening to all again for the latest update!!!

I tested the water this evening at 18:30 hrs (24 hours withthe clocks going back) and got the following:

PH 8.0
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.8+ (prob just a little higher but very close to! This may be a little higher due to the transfer of media to the new filter!)
Nitrate 20-50 (AGAIN not sure about this one colour was around this mark but no definate colour to match. really dont get this! i am thinking about getting a Salifert kit as they seem so much better and far more accurate when I need to replace the kit I have! Goes for all of them really!!)
dKH Off the scale > 16

It still seems to be going well! I am just wondering if the new filter has started to affect the cycle I HOPE NOT!!! We shall see over the next few days!!

Cheers

 

[waterdrop]

Accuracy is least necessary with the Nitrate(NO3) measurement. What's important to you as an aquarist is the -trend- more than an individual measurement.

Consider the action that one takes based on this test. If its anywhere under 400 (or even 1000 some say), nitrate(NO3) is probably not going to kill the fish. Instead it is a crude verification of the state of good maintenance or neglect of the gravel-vaccuming-water-changes you've done to your tank. If you don't keep up with your weekly cleanings, NO3 is likely to go up. Keep up with them and its likely to stay 10 or 20 (or less) -above- whatever your tap water measures.

I'm not saying it isn't useful to have the measurement be accurate, obviously that's always the best and there are always special circimstances where it can be particularly helpful. But for beginners it is so important to get into a maintenance rhthym with the tank, and for that, the helpful thing, I think, is that following along on the first few months of being a beginner gives you some verification of this maintenance pattern that's being described as being good.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[Tuppers]

Thanks for that WD I hope I can do a good job to keep those critters in good health!!

 

[Tuppers]

Day 13: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good evening to all again for the latest update!!!

I tested the water this evening at 19:30 hrs and got the following:

PH 8.0
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.3-0.8
Nitrate 110+ (Def at least this!!)
dKH Not Tested

Well seems ok still I will wait till tomorrow! Since i added some flora boost yesterday my water has a red/brown tinge!?? Should I just leave it or would a water change be an idea?

 

[waterdrop]

Your gonna need a water change soon anyway if the tests keep saying the nitrates are that high and for everything we can tell you are in the second phase, when water changes seem to fit into the process ok. I just would wait another day and get a couple more readings since nitrate(NO3) readings are so notoriously dodgy. No worry about the ferts looking red. Remember, this is just a soup for growing bacteria!

~~waterdrop~~

 

[rabbut]

I hate to contradict Waterdrop, but someone had issues with a waterchange not so long ago, slowing down the cycle, it wasn't you was it? I've just skimmed the last page and a bit of posts and cannont find anything mentioning it recently, but all the same... When cycling, I like to use the saying "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" as IME it tends to lead to more issues than it fixes. I'd let things pan themselves out without help, untill ammonia/nitrite conversion starts to slow, or the pH starts to slip, either way, before doing a waterchange

All the best
Rabbut

 

[waterdrop]

Well I see it as a mixed bag. I'm in complete agreement with you during the first long phase before a nitrite spike has been established - water changes during that phase will just slow things down and rarely provide any help for anything. Also, I agree that even in the second phase, during the nitrite spike, a water change can take up to two days to "recover" from and have the cycle growth get back in motion, so they are not to be taken too lightly from a speed-of-cycle standpoint.

I was recommending however that Tuppers get some more stats of that high nitrite on the books first and if we saw 3 or 4 (this would be a couple days, assuming hes doing stats twice per 24 hour period) of these 110+ nitrate(NO3) readings, then a waterchange would be in order on the basis of Hovanec's concern that both high nitrates and/or very high nitrites(NO2) can cause the N-Bac growth to stall.

So I completely agree with you that unneccessary water changes should be avoided during fishless cycling. But I've come to feel that during the second phase, the "kickstart" effect of a large water change when nitrites and/or nitrates are high and a good gravel clean stirs these substances out into the outgoing water, will often have a salutary effect on the cycle, despite the brief pause it causes just due to the fact that water changes always cause a pause (in other words, I feel there is a bigger potential growth speedup after the pause.)

~~waterdrop~~
ps. [I even have a pet theory (unsupported) that for some reason nitrates(NO3) in particular want to somehow "hang low" in the filter and gravel more so than nitrites and especially more so than ammonia. Have you ever noticed how a first water change will drop ammonia more effectively than nitrate(NO3)? It often seems a second or even third water change can be needed when someone (a fishless cycler) is trying to get rid of NO3. So I have this theory that somehow it distributes itself in a non-even dispersal, making it possibly even more effective at slowing N-Bac development.]

 

[Tuppers]

Day 14: Fishless Cycle on 16G/60L

Well good evening to all again for the latest update!!! IMy test I ordered some weeks ago has finally arrived! Its the Mini API Test Kit. I decided to use this one to compare it to the Nutrfin one I have, and I can say that! The API one if by far more superior!! So here are the test results, tested at 18:30 hrs:

PH 8.2
Ammonia 0.0
Nitrite 0.25
Nitrate 160
dKH Not Tested

Also I forgot to dose the tank with ammonia last night and the Missus did it for me at 22:00 hrs, I have also added 2ml at 18:30 hrs (remembered this time!)

Well seems ok BUT the Nitrates are a little high, I dont really have a chance at the minute to do a water change so if it is ok can I leave this alone till at least Friday/Saturday, funny shifts at the moment. As you have said above it is only a concern when the Nitrite and Nitrate are high But my Nitrite seem to have lowered them selves.

For WD I didnt realise that you wanted 12 hour results, this can be done if you require them, I was only doing them to see whether my Ammonia was dropping in 12 hours, which it appears it is doing!

 

[waterdrop]

Oh, certainly no one is dictating that tests be done twice a day. Often people do this during fishless cycling out of curiosity (morning and evening) and it does make for easier visualization of trends for yourself when you look back in your notebook. In your case it sounds like shifts make it less natural to follow a pattern like that and I'd say what you're doing is probably fine.

And yes, by all means, give it a wait on a water change (w/gravel clean) until the weekend or when convenient. With that nice 8.2 pH you should hopefully be getting some good growth from your bacteria. Are you maintaining a temp like 84F/29C?

~~waterdrop~~