Water chemistry

OscarRomeoFiveTwo

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Afternoon all any chemistry geeks in?

So I did a water test in the tank today and the water was fine. Last water change was over a week ago
0 ammonia
0 nitrate
0 nitrite
pH of 7
KH of 5
GH 8

I thought I'd re test the tap water as well and was surprised to see the kh as < 1

How would the kh rise from <1 at the tap to 5 in the tank? (I repeated the test 3 times with the same results)

I just have normal gravel and soil substrate with some valis giganta plants and running a Fluval U4
 
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Possibly rocks / gravel / decor dissolving carbonates into the water.

Zero nitrate… do you have very light stocking and/or heavy planting?
 
Possibly rocks / gravel / decor dissolving carbonates into the water.

Zero nitrate… do you have very light stocking or heavy planting?
Yes possible but I didn't think I had anything that buffered the water. Got some rose wood. And normal gravel and soil substrate and valis giganta. B
 
If there is lots of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the tap water, it will give a lower pH reading.

If you have a container of tap water and check the pH immediately after it comes out of the tap, and test the same sample 24 hours later, there can be a difference due to the dissolved gasses balancing out after the water is exposed to air. If the CO2 is high in the tap water, the pH will be low. After a day or two of aeration, the CO2 levels drop and the pH goes up.

The same thing happens if you have lots of plants in the tank. When they get lots of light, they suck up the excess CO2 and the pH goes up during the day. At night the pH can drop due to the build up of CO2.
 
If there is lots of carbon dioxide (CO2) in the tap water, it will give a lower pH reading.

If you have a container of tap water and check the pH immediately after it comes out of the tap, and test the same sample 24 hours later, there can be a difference due to the dissolved gasses balancing out after the water is exposed to air. If the CO2 is high in the tap water, the pH will be low. After a day or two of aeration, the CO2 levels drop and the pH goes up.

The same thing happens if you have lots of plants in the tank. When they get lots of light, they suck up the excess CO2 and the pH goes up during the day. At night the pH can drop due to the build up of CO2.
How would this relate to KH?
 
Hello. It's hard for me to believe you have no trace of nitrates in your tank water. Nitrate is in your tap water and is present in all aquariums. You couldn't grow plants without it. Your fish will be healthier if you maintain a steady water chemistry in place of a particular chemistry. You'll have a steady water chemistry if you simply remove and replace most of the tank water every few days and not worry about the chemistry end of things. But, this is just my opinion. I'm a water change fanatic and not a chemist.

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Hello. It's hard for me to believe you have no trace of nitrates in your tank water. Nitrate is in your tap water and is present in all aquariums. You couldn't grow plants without it. Your fish will be healthier if you maintain a steady water chemistry in place of a particular chemistry. You'll have a steady water chemistry if you simply remove and replace most of the tank water every few days and not worry about the chemistry end of things. But, this is just my opinion. I'm a water change fanatic and not a chemist.

10
I agree. The colour of the test I read as 0 but the colour difference between 0 and 40ppm is very subtle so some else may read it as 40.
And again I agree I change at least 50% each week I'm not a bit worried about the tests all the fish are healthy I was just curious, I enjoy learning about all the chemistry
 
It is possible to have zero nitrate in a tank - I do. My tap nitrate is between 0 and 5 with the API tester and my water company gives it as 3 ppm. I have plants in the tank, including floating plants which have to be thinned out at every water change. The plants seem to remove all the ammonia made in the tank and even remove the last trace of nitrate.

You couldn't grow plants without it.
Plants prefer ammonia as their source of nitrogen and only take up nitrate is there is insufficient ammonia.
 
It is possible to have zero nitrate in a tank - I do. My tap nitrate is between 0 and 5 with the API tester and my water company gives it as 3 ppm. I have plants in the tank, including floating plants which have to be thinned out at every water change. The plants seem to remove all the ammonia made in the tank and even remove the last trace of nitrate.


Plants prefer ammonia as their source of nitrogen and only take up nitrate is there is insufficient ammonia.
Hello. Interesting you say you have no nitrate in your tank water. I've been in the fish keeping business quite a few years and never heard of this. Since nitrogen is a major part of the air we breathe, there would be a trace in our water. Our water here can contain up to up to 20 parts per million In most parts of the US, the water can contain nitrate levels up to 40 ppm. Natural water still has some nitrates, around 5 ppm. I haven't tested my water in several years, I never found the need to know the chemistry end of things. I never found it important to keeping a healthy tank.

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How would this relate to KH?

CO2 is dissolved carbon dioxide. It produces carbonic acid, and the pH will lower. However, this has to be taken in conjunction with other factors, like the GH. Let a glass of tap water sit for 24 hours, then test pH (someone suggested this above).

It is always possible that something in the tank is doing this, maybe something in the soil. I would do the above test first, as that is most likely the issue.

And to join in the nitrate issue, you want nitrates as absolutely low as possible, and live plants certainly help with this as essjay explained. Nitrates are detrimental to all fish.
 
I'm trying to get my brain around the idea of water with no nitrates, since nitrogen makes up close to 80 percent of the surrounding air. A thought occurred to me on the subject of nitrates in tank water. There's a way to check for nitrates without using testing equipment of any sort. Algae can live and grow in water with as few nitrates as 10 parts per million (ppm). So, if your tank has a growth of any of the many types of algae, you have nitrates in the water. I guess the whole chemistry thing is lost on me.

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Hello. Interesting you say you have no nitrate in your tank water. I've been in the fish keeping business quite a few years and never heard of this. Since nitrogen is a major part of the air we breathe, there would be a trace in our water. Our water here can contain up to up to 20 parts per million In most parts of the US, the water can contain nitrate levels up to 40 ppm. Natural water still has some nitrates, around 5 ppm. I haven't tested my water in several years, I never found the need to know the chemistry end of things. I never found it important to keeping a healthy tank.

10

The nitrogen in the air we breathe is nitrogen gas and this does dissolve in water as N2 gas. This is not the same as nitrate, NO3.

We measure the three nitrogen compounds - ammonia as both free ammonia NH3 and ammonium, NH4 combined; nitrite as NO2; and nitrate as NO3. Of these, we aim to keep ammonia and nitrite at zero and nitrate below 20 ppm, and as low as possible. Ammonia and nitrite harm fish quickly; nitrate is more long term.

Ammonia is excreted by fish and other micro-organisms. Where a water provider uses chloramine as disinfectant, this also provides ammonia when dechlorinators split up chloramine into ammonia and chlorine. Bacteria and aquatic plants take up ammonia so there should never be any detectable ammonia in a fish tank.

Nitrite is made from ammonia by bacteria. More micro-organisms take up nitrite and turn it into nitrate. Plants do not make nitrite, they turn ammonia into amino acids then to protein.

Nitrate in fish tanks comes from two sources - made from ammonia via nitrite by bacteria and in the source water. In a planted tank, very little nitrate is made as plants remove ammonia and don't turn it into nitrite so there's none to turn into nitrate. In a non-planted tank, all the ammonia made by the fish etc ends up as nitrate.
Many fish keepers battle nitrate as they have almost the legal limit in their tap water. Those of us lucky enough to have very low nitrate in our tap water have little trouble keeping nitrate very low; and in a planted tank that can be as low as zero as the ammonia made by the fish is not turned into nitrate.

Aquatic plants use ammonia in preference to nitrate as they have to turn nitrate back into ammonia to process it, and this takes energy. It is more energy efficient for them to use ammonia and only use nitrate when ammonia is used up. Terrestrial plants prefer their nitrogen as nitrate which is why these can be grown with their roots in a tank to lower nitrate.



The test kits we use cannot detect trace amounts of ammonia, nitrite and nitrate in tank water - or tap water. There will always be undetectable amounts in our tanks.
 
I didn't mention where high levels of nitrate in tap water comes from. It's most often from run off from fertilised agricultural fields. Farmers use nitrate based fertiliser for their crops. Rivers such as the Amazon, where there is little intensive agricultural farming, have no detectable level of nitrate.

I use the word detectable to mean below the capability of our test kits. There may be trace levels but we can't see them.
 
Here a snippet from my water quality report.

ParameterUnitsNo. of samples
taken in year
PCV limitNo. samples
above PCV
MinMeanMax
Nitratemg/l NO385001.682.5443.92
 

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