Stocking My Nano

[Dylan_89]

Hey all,

My tank has finished it's cycle and I've been thinking about finally stocking it...

Now this is after all a NANO tank.. only 40L (10 gallons).. So I know that my stocking choices are limited... I am also going to be having some corals, currently have a plate in there. looks beautiful!

I've been doing some research and talked to a lot of the people I know that breed marine fish, online articles, LFS, etc etc.

So fish that I was considering (not all of them obviously, but a combination of these or something):

Clown Fish (smallest variety)
Cleaner Wrasse
Firefish
Goby (not sure what type yet)
Dwarf Lionfish <--- This is probably the biggest thing I've been thinking of... Some people say I can keep it in the 10g, others say I need at least 30g..

Now with the Lionfish, I won't be able to have anything else, obviously!! Unless others tell me it would be possible? This is my first marine tank and I don't want to feed my Lionfish any clowns

Otherwise, I was thinking maybe 2 clowns and a cleaner?

Let me know please people!!

 

[Donya]

In a tank that small, keeping multiple fish is not usually an option. It's safest to just pick one small fish and stick with it. Incredibly small fish like neon gobies can be exceptions (although not normally two of those specifically - they fight unless paired), but if you did something like a shrimp+goby pair, that would pretty much fill up the tank. Going beyond that, you will be constantly battling water quality and stressing the fish for space. If you are dead set on having multiple fish, you really need to upgrade to a bigger tank.

Clown Fish - too big for the tank IMO, even for the smaller clown species. 20gal is usually considered the minimum for clowns. Definitely no to a clown pair in a 10gal as a permanent home.

Cleaner Wrasse - I have heard too many examples of them being difficult to care for to ever look into them. Difficult fish are even more difficult in a small tank, so, unless there have been some massive advances in knowledge of cleaner wrasse care in recent times, I would stay away from these fish.

Firefish - maybe. I wouldn't do it personally, but I have seen it done. The fish have looked cramped to me when full-sized, so I would again recommend against them. If there are going to be lots of corals in the tank, you also need to consider how much swimming room will be left between LR in the tank and the corals. Firefish have a bit of a reputation for jumping, so they are safest kept with a lid (which can cause heat problems in a small tank with the amount of light needed for many corals).

Goby - look into neon gobies, clown gobies, and small gobies that pair with pistol shrimp.

Dwarf Lionfish - not demanding for space necessarily, but predators always require larger volumes of water unless you are incredibly diligent with water changes at a higher rate than the average small tank. Since you are keeping corals too, a messy fish in a small tank can be a recipe for problems.

 

[lljdma06]

IMO, a small percula or ocellaris will be ok in a 10g. Not a pair, though.

Gobies, wrasses, firefish, blennies, all need a tight lid. They'll jump when disturbed.

I've got a panda goby in my 4g pico. It's doing very well. Trimma cana goby is also a popular choice for picos.

Another possibility is a small damselfish species. One of the more peaceful, smaller species. I've seen very successful picos with Yellowtail blue damselfish. Only one, though and that's typically the only fish you get in the tank. I'm considering one for my 8g.

I wouldn't get a lionfish. Like Donya said, it's a messy predator. You have to really be up in your water quality.

All this being said, there is absolutely nothing wrong with just having an invertebrate tank.

May we have some more information on your system and what you currently have. A picture would be great.

 

[Dylan_89]

Thanks for the info guys!

Having kept freshy tanks for such a long time.. and often caring for other peoples tanks when they are out of town.. I find myself keeping my water so clean that any plants I have tend to die off unless i feed them a nutrient.. I do gravel cleans every Tuesday & Saturday and on the Saturday do a 10-20% water change, depending on what the tank is like... I've kept nano freshies so this SW nano was almost a natural thing to occur for me, I like a good challenge... All this being said... Water quality is not a problem at all, so keeping the lionfish with corals (even with him being the messiest #29### in the world, I'd still be fine..

I've put in less than the recommended LR and have little to no corals at the moment... just a plate and one other (unidentified so far) hard coral.. I was looking at slowly adding them... so theres plenty of swimming room.

I'll try get a picture up over the next few days, as I am struggling to find time to do anything right now (at work atm too)..

Jumping fish are not a problem, my tank has a completely covered lid, so not a problem at all.

I keep finding different information on each fish I mentioned & get told different things by different people... so here's my general thinking...

Clowns: Some say it's too small some say it's fine.. my question is.. with my decreased amount of LR & corals.. is there enough room for one (exclude anything about it possibly being too messy for them in there, as water quality is not a problem)

Cleaner Wrasse: I like the challenge of keeping a fish that is notoriously difficult to keep in an aquarium.. (i keep BGK and discus, kind of attracted to the risk factor and challenge on keeping the water perfect for them)

Firefish: How big do these exactly grow? they are intriguing fish

Gobies: Just don't know how attracted I am to these guys, they have great colouring and such, but it seems a little dull on the other fronts..

Dwarf Lionfish: Worried about feeding and how much he will actually be out and about... I have a PERFECT cave for him, but i fear that it will only come out to grab the food for a split second, then shoot back in... but who knows... the guy that was selling it said it wasn't a fussy eater and that it was always out and about...


Thanks again guys!

by guys, i of course mean ladies (=

 

[ALW]

Now this is after all a NANO tank.. only 40L (10 gallons).. So I know that my stocking choices are limited... I am also going to be having some corals, currently have a plate in there. looks beautiful!

Ok so it needs to be something that stays small and has a tendency not to be active around the tank. A few fish that come to mind are:

Clown Gobies
Grammas
Flame Hawkfish
Banggai Cardinalfish

A Fu Manchu Lionfish would be do able if and only if you have excellent water with 50% water change per week.

Or you could have no fish and go for an Invert only tank?

 

[Donya]

Whooaaaaa, wait a minute.

I've put in less than the recommended LR

How much is actually in there? Why is there less than what you were recommended, and how much were you recommended? If you were recommended something crazy like 5lbs/gal then you can probably ignore most of this post, but if not...the recommended amount I'm used to hearing is somewhere in the neighborhood of 1lb/gal and assumes moderately porous rock. There are different numbers floating around that have to do with US vs. UK gallons and some do it in kg instead, but the amounts are usually not too vastly different from each other. If you have dipped substantially under 1lb/UK gal (which is less rock per volume than 1lb/US gal as I'm used to but still in the ballpark), is your tank hooked up to a sump or canister filter with extra rock that's not in the main tank? If this is your first tank and there is no out-of-tank source of extra biological filtration to make up for what's not in the tank, sacrificing filtration capacity for space is a dangerous way to approach any marine tank. As I said before, if you really want fish, get a bigger tank - it will be much safer for the animals you get if it's your first attempt.

While it is possible to run some tanks on very little rock and the amount you need is ultimately dictated by the individual rocks and stocking of the tank rather than weight rules, taking shortcuts in rock amount is not something I would ever recommend someone try for their first tank. The less rock you have, the less buffer you give yourself in the event something goes wrong. As someone who has 11 marine tanks right now, most of which are under 20gal and all the way down to 0.9 gal in size, I feel I have some experience with the array of problems that small tanks have to offer. Have I dipped under the pound-per-gallon rule on some of those tanks? Sure, but only with invert-only tanks and select collections of rock that seem to do a better-than-normal filtering job due to their structure and porosity. In any case, from my experience with those 11 tanks, I have to say that simply relying on more frequent WCs is not a safe way to ensure stability in a system, particularly when messier animals like fish are involved. For some invert-only systems (emphasis on "some"), WCs alone can be reasonably effective with minimal rock, but fish put a much larger strain on the system than a few hermit crabs and snails.

Among other problems is the fact that things go south much faster in smaller volumes of water. When things go south, it's not going to be right before your next scheduled WC so you can take care of it straight away. As with all aquariums, it's going to be either just after you leave early to be out of the house for an incredibly long day or just after you go to bed to sleep in the next morning. Or worse, it will happen in such a way that you don't even realize what happened until several days later. Small marine tanks can be crashed in a day if the problem isn't caught fast enough and the tank isn't set up to handle the issue. The less biological filtration you have, the more likely you are to start seeing parameter swings wrapped around your WC schedule if your stocking is at the limits of what the filtration can handle. I have seen this even in some invert-only systems.

Water quality is not a problem at all

If you haven't put the fish in, you don't actually know that yet unless you tested it by other means. Have you done any kind of bio-load test on the tank to see what happens when you toss in a reasonably-sized piece of raw seafood and let it decay? If you have corals in there now, obviously I wouldn't recommend doing that kind of test at this point in case the tank fails it.

Cleaner Wrasse: I like the challenge of keeping a fish that is notoriously difficult to keep in an aquarium.. (i keep BGK and discus, kind of attracted to the risk factor and challenge on keeping the water perfect for them)

Remember that the wrasses will be wild caught. Because of this, difficulty of captive care should be a red flag even for experienced aquarists. If it is your first marine tank, please choose something that has a better captive track record and don't try to break new ground on your first go.

 

[lljdma06]

Echoing Donya's sentiments, I'd really like to see a picture of the tank to determine just how much LR you have before I continue to determine which livestock is best for you.

My planted marine has less than what's recommended, about 40lbs total, but that is a planted marine and falls under those "special circumstances". My others have about 1.5-2lbs or more per gallon depending on the system. They look pretty much crammed with rock.

L

 

[Dylan_89]

Okay this is the only picture I have of it.. this was about a month ago



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The corals since then have brightened right up, I got them from a friend that was slowly killing them all.. I've nursed them back to health in my tank due to great water conditions!! (=
Those rocks are quite light a porous..

Concerning other things:
1) I have done a bioload test - chucked in a prawn let it decay and create a HUGE ammonia spike.. it was gone in no time at all... I couldn't create ammonia if I tried...
2) Cleaner Wrasse: The fact that it is wild caught it not that much of a turn off for me, my BGK was wild caught, as were my discus.... well not 100% sure but the previous owner said they were..
3) Invert-only tank: I've thought of this.. but it doesn't really appeal to me that much..

Hope I answered all the questions and such...

oh btw, can anyone identify that coral at the front.. i know the one on top is a plate - but i don't know about the fornt one.. i've just been calling it "alien eyes" (; hehe.. but yeah that's a bad angle, taken with a phone camera.. and the colours in it are terrible..

Thanks for everything!

 

[ALW]

The coral looks like a Caulastrea furcata but could also be a sulking Duncan. A Cleaner Wrasse is a big NO NO in a tank that small. Very few Cleaner Wrasse are able to live in home aquariums. Those that manage to successfully keep one have large enough systems with plentiful other species of fish that the Cleaner is able to live off, by performing its cleaner duties. Those that manager to keep cleaners alive, even fewer are able to wean to a Wrasse onto frozen and flake foods. Unless you are able to provide a large enough system that can accommodate a wide numbers of fish please leave the Wrasse in the shop. This way LFSs may then order less and less Cleaner Wrasse and in doing so leave them on the Reefs. As for wild caught, 85% of marine fish are wild caught.

 

[lljdma06]

Is it possible to get an updated picture. Honestly, I can't tell you anything without a more current picture. Right now, it just looks like you need to get some CUC to clean up your substrate and you need more LR.

What is your maintenance regimen? Have you added CUC yet?

 

[Dylan_89]

Is it possible to get an updated picture. Honestly, I can't tell you anything without a more current picture. Right now, it just looks like you need to get some CUC to clean up your substrate and you need more LR.

What is your maintenance regimen? Have you added CUC yet?

Updated picture would just show the corals are prettier.. Nothing has moved or changed really.. same amount of LR - this is what I m,eant when I said I had less than the recommended amount of LR, so I have that extra water space... I was thinking of getting one more piece and trying to cover up that back glass in the middle.. get some corals growing on that.. but as u can see.... directly below the plate - there is a perfect tunnel for a dwarf lion to make his/her home.

as far as CUC (which i had to look up btw, i hope u do in fact mean Clean Up Crew), I have not added anything... I have been cleaning my glass with a magnet cleaner thingo and just doing gravel vacs whenever it gets a little too dirty... The problem I have is, if I decide to go for the dwarf lionfish, it's gonna eat anything I put in there... Love to have a starfish in there to let it run wild (as wild as a starfish can be that is) but I just don't want to put him in there only for him to have a "last meal" of sorts..

My maintenance regimen consists of gravel cleans whenever it looks dirty or i notice anything out of the ordinary - and water changes once or twice a week.. i check levels regularly (ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, pH & SG)

What do you suggest for a CUC? since i am now seriously considering getting the dwarf lion

Thanks again for the brilliant advice!

 

[Donya]

Love to have a starfish in there to let it run wild (as wild as a starfish can be that is) but I just don't want to put him in there only for him to have a "last meal" of sorts..

This may come off as rude, but I'm going to say it anyway at the risk of that: you really need to do a lot more research/reading about marine aquarium husbandry in general and also on the animals you are interested in. Even if you're a freshwater expert at the moment, statements like the one above really set off my lack-of-research alarm in the marine world. Please stick to animals with a solid captive record until you have a reasonable amount of experience with marine systems.

Starfish belonging to class Asteroidea (the thick-limbed, slow-moving stars typically referred to by most people as "starfish") are not simple to care for in home aquariums and, as a result, have an absolutely abysmal captive record. There are also disproportionate numbers of transportation-related casualties before the survivors even reach the end hobbyist. On top of that, you have deaths due to botched acclimation and more bad ends when even experienced hobbyists can't figure out how to properly care for a particular species. The diets are poorly documented for many species in the trade and most star deaths after arrival in a home tank and survival of acclimation are the result of starvation over several months. Stars decline slowly and it is not always easy to recognize when a problem is afoot until it's too late, at which point the star has probably already started falling apart (literally). Small tanks and even newly established larger tanks are far more likely to present no suitable meal at all than a last one, and a star that dies in a small tank presents a significant risk of a tank crash when parts of it start to turn into sludge rather quickly.

Brittle/serpent stars (class Ophiuroidea) are far hardier and easier to care for, but also easily injured by some in-tank pump designs as well as various fish and Crustaceans. Some are also questionable in with fish that are not a danger to them, as risk may exist the other way around.

 

[lljdma06]

Love to have a starfish in there to let it run wild (as wild as a starfish can be that is) but I just don't want to put him in there only for him to have a "last meal" of sorts..

This may come off as rude, but I'm going to say it anyway at the risk of that: you really need to do a lot more research/reading about marine aquarium husbandry in general and also on the animals you are interested in. Even if you're a freshwater expert at the moment, statements like the one above really set off my lack-of-research alarm in the marine world. Please stick to animals with a solid captive record until you have a reasonable amount of experience with marine systems.

Starfish belonging to class Asteroidea (the thick-limbed, slow-moving stars typically referred to by most people as "starfish") are not simple to care for in home aquariums and, as a result, have an absolutely abysmal captive record. There are also disproportionate numbers of transportation-related casualties before the survivors even reach the end hobbyist. On top of that, you have deaths due to botched acclimation and more bad ends when even experienced hobbyists can't figure out how to properly care for a particular species. The diets are poorly documented for many species in the trade and most star deaths after arrival in a home tank and survival of acclimation are the result of starvation over several months. Stars decline slowly and it is not always easy to recognize when a problem is afoot until it's too late, at which point the star has probably already started falling apart (literally). Small tanks and even newly established larger tanks are far more likely to present no suitable meal at all than a last one, and a star that dies in a small tank presents a significant risk of a tank crash when parts of it start to turn into sludge rather quickly.

Brittle/serpent stars (class Ophiuroidea) are far hardier and easier to care for, but also easily injured by some in-tank pump designs as well as various fish and Crustaceans. Some are also questionable in with fish that are not a danger to them, as risk may exist the other way around.

It's not rude, Donya it's true. I spent nearly 3-4 months just reading books before I even setup my tanks. I made multiple stock lists and revised them. The SW hobby is extremely rewarding, but there is a lot of detail work involved.

I suggest two books that really helped me through the early process...

Micheal Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium

Jeffrey Kurtz's A simple Guide to Marine Aquariums.

I know you're doing very well and I applaud your efforts so far, but for now, just try and keep the tried and true. I've got 23 years in the hobby and I'm just keeping stuff that's tried and true.

L

 

[Dylan_89]

I really do appreciate all the information I've been receiving.

I think that my comment about getting a "starfish" was taken the wrong way... I know a few ppl with marine tanks and a few nano's - they all have a version of a starfish, it's not a brittle.. but not one of those gigantic ones that almost looks like 5 seaslugs having an orgy (pardon the image)... My LR managed to get a few hitchhikers of brittlestars (they are like a light tan colour with brown bands) but they are too small to really make a difference... what do you suggest as a CUC?

Your comment wasn't rude at all, I welcome any information.. I don't do anything to any tank I own without proper research beforehand.. hence why I've been posting here and asking for advice before putting anything actually into my tank...

 

[ALW]

I suggest two books that really helped me through the early process...

Micheal Paletta's The New Marine Aquarium

Jeffrey Kurtz's A simple Guide to Marine Aquariums.

I know you're doing very well and I applaud your efforts so far, but for now, just try and keep the tried and true. I've got 23 years in the hobby and I'm just keeping stuff that's tried and true.

L

I would also recommend reading The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert M. Fenner