Scissortail rasbora

[RoshK]

hi I am wondering if anyone can help me

Have recently set up a 54litre tropical tank. Tank was running empty for 3/4 days before adding fish. I have added 5 scissortail rasboras as my ‘starting fish’. The first 2 days they were absolutely fine, seemed very happy and were eating (fed every other day).

The last 2 days they have seemed very agitated during daytime. They have been laying very low to the gravel and appear to be shaking their tails, staying in the same spot. They have not been interested in food.

I tested my water and all of my levels were perfect, no ammonia or nitrite, tiny trace of nitrate, ph 7.5, temp 26 degrees.

As soon as the room is in complete darkness they become active again, swimming around the mid/top level of the tank. Has anyone else noticed this before? I have closely inspected the fish and they have no markings to their bodies at all.

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[Byron]

First, I would like to welcome you to TFF.

Second, to your issue. My first suspicion would be cycling. Did you cycle the tank before adding fish, and if yes, how? How long has the tank been running before the fish went in ("recently" doesn't tell us ). I assume the rasbora group are the only fish.

I realize ammonia and nitrite have now tested zero, but the issue could still have been cycling. Ammonia and nitrite both poison fish, and while some fish can live through it, they are always the worse for it, and may succumb to this or that down the road.

You used a conditioner to negate chlorine/chloramine presumably? What is the aquascape--an open tank with overhead light will stress fish more than one with lots of "stuff" and floating plants. Their activity when the tank light is out might suggest this is the issue.

These or other factors may apply of course, there can be many reasons behind fish reacting negatively. The unique inter-relationship of fish to their water environment is extremely complex and unlike anything terrestrial animals have, with the exception of amphibians. This can make it difficult to diagnose problems, so we tend to eliminate the more obvious one by one until we find the likely culprit.

 

[RoshK]

First, I would like to welcome you to TFF.

Second, to your issue. My first suspicion would be cycling. Did you cycle the tank before adding fish, and if yes, how? How long has the tank been running before the fish went in ("recently" doesn't tell us ). I assume the rasbora group are the only fish.

I realize ammonia and nitrite have now tested zero, but the issue could still have been cycling. Ammonia and nitrite both poison fish, and while some fish can live through it, they are always the worse for it, and may succumb to this or that down the road.

You used a conditioner to negate chlorine/chloramine presumably? What is the aquascape--an open tank with overhead light will stress fish more than one with lots of "stuff" and floating plants. Their activity when the tank light is out might suggest this is the issue.

These or other factors may apply of course, there can be many reasons behind fish reacting negatively. The unique inter-relationship of fish to their water environment is extremely complex and unlike anything terrestrial animals have, with the exception of amphibians. This can make it difficult to diagnose problems, so we tend to eliminate the more obvious one by one until we find the likely culprit.

Thankyou for your reply. What do you mean cycle? As soon as I got the tank I added water, water conditioner, and had the filter and heater running for 4 days. Then I added my rasbora, they are my only fish group at present.

My tank is closed lid and has an led light to illuminate, I have had blue covers over the white light as I heard that’s what tropical fish prefer. I have got moss balls but no floating plants.

The whole inside of my tank is also mirrored which I didn’t realise when I bought it. Sometimes the fish will keep swimming towards their reflection. I am wondering if they might be lonely? Seems silly but could that happen coming from a tank of many to now only 5 of them?

I am almost certain it is the light causing the issue. Even with my tank light off the minute I put my room light on they resume on the bottom of the tank. They were put in on Sunday and were absolutely fine with the light until Tuesday. The aquatic store I got them from also had very bright lights.

 

[Byron]

Cycling is the term for the process that establishes the nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce amonia via respiration (and there are other sources), and you need a colony of Nitrosomonas bacteria to use this ammonia, removing it. But these bacteria then produce nitrite, which is also deadly, and a second species of Nitrospira bacteria appear and establish themselves to take up this nitrite. These bacteria produce nitrate, which is still poisonous but much less so; I won't go beyond this now. The colonization/establishment of these bacteria is what we call cycling a new tank. Once established, the bacteria will continue to live and reproduce according to the level of ammonia/nitrite. There are threads in the cycling section that explain how to do the cycle.

Plants also take up ammonia, and the moss balls will help with this, and may be why the fish are not all dead. Some ammonia may have been taken up by the moss. It would not be that much though.

Your test results of zero ammonia and nitrite and a trace of nitrate might indicate that the cycle has established itself. The fish have still be harmed though, and there is no way to rectify this. A stress-less environment, clean water, are the best ways. By the way, always give us the numbers for tests..."trace" of nitrate is meaningless without a number.

The "mirror" issue...are you sure? All aquariums when filled with water do appear somewhat mirrored when we see into the tank. If the glass itself is plain clear glass, this is not an issue.

Light has a profound effect on fish. It drives their circadian rhythm and fish are very light sensitive. The tank should not be subjected to on/off light, be it the tank light or the room light. As you have seen, it stresses the fish, hence their reaction. The tank light (and white is better than blue) should be timed to come on and go off at the same time each day; a little lamp timer you can get in hardware stores will provide this regularity. The room must be in relative light, not dark, when the tank light comes on and goes off; daylight from windows is fine, or artificial lighting. But the fish also need a period of total darkness with no room lighting for several hours each night. Once the tank light goes off, do not turn it back on until the next day.

 

[RoshK]

Cycling is the term for the process that establishes the nitrifying bacteria. Fish produce amonia via respiration (and there are other sources), and you need a colony of Nitrosomonas bacteria to use this ammonia, removing it. But these bacteria then produce nitrite, which is also deadly, and a second species of Nitrospira bacteria appear and establish themselves to take up this nitrite. These bacteria produce nitrate, which is still poisonous but much less so; I won't go beyond this now. The colonization/establishment of these bacteria is what we call cycling a new tank. Once established, the bacteria will continue to live and reproduce according to the level of ammonia/nitrite. There are threads in the cycling section that explain how to do the cycle.

Plants also take up ammonia, and the moss balls will help with this, and may be why the fish are not all dead. Some ammonia may have been taken up by the moss. It would not be that much though.

Your test results of zero ammonia and nitrite and a trace of nitrate might indicate that the cycle has established itself. The fish have still be harmed though, and there is no way to rectify this. A stress-less environment, clean water, are the best ways. By the way, always give us the numbers for tests..."trace" of nitrate is meaningless without a number.

The "mirror" issue...are you sure? All aquariums when filled with water do appear somewhat mirrored when we see into the tank. If the glass itself is plain clear glass, this is not an issue.

Light has a profound effect on fish. It drives their circadian rhythm and fish are very light sensitive. The tank should not be subjected to on/off light, be it the tank light or the room light. As you have seen, it stresses the fish, hence their reaction. The tank light (and white is better than blue) should be timed to come on and go off at the same time each day; a little lamp timer you can get in hardware stores will provide this regularity. The room must be in relative light, not dark, when the tank light comes on and goes off; daylight from windows is fine, or artificial lighting. But the fish also need a period of total darkness with no room lighting for several hours each night. Once the tank light goes off, do not turn it back on until the next day.

Would you recommend adding more live plants to my aquarium then? When I last tested the water the trace of nitrate that I mentioned was 20ppm. I am due to change the water in 2 days time.

Maybe I was wrong about the mirroring of the tank then, my mistake. When I look through the front of the tank I can see the fishes and ornaments reflections but when looking through the side of the tank I can see straight through it.

I will look at getting a timer for my tank light. I am upset my fish have been harmed by the light . My tank is in my bedroom and before turning on the tank light I always make sure my curtains are open and that it doesn’t go straight from dark to light. Are my fish likely to recover from the light sensitivity?

Thank you for all the help so far.

 

[Byron]

You are probably dealing with more than one factor, so don't blame the light alone. The cycling issue took a real toll, and other things add to the stress.

Nitrate at 20 ppm is more than a "trace," so it is good to have the number. You don't want nitrates any higher. Some of this may be due to the initial cycling, and if so, then nitrate should lower over the next couple of weeks. A water change will not hurt, ever. Just use a conditioner to dechlorinate.

Live plants always benefit, but this is a complex subject too. I tend to recommend floating plants, as they are the easiest to maintain. Lower plants like any planted in the substrate will have more need for good light and nutrients than floating plants. Moss is a low-light plant so that is not an issue if you get some floating plants. Water Sprite is ideal, if you can find any in fish stores. Water Lettuce is similar, and Tropical Frogbit another.

 

[seangee]

It is possibly worth mentioning that no ammonia or nitrites means a reading of exactly 0.0. Although it seems like a low number 0.25 is enough to cause significant health issues and 0.5 will most likely lead to deaths.