On A Lfs Mission

[5teady_2012]

Pets at home, hull.


Phoned

Me: Hi, could i speak to *** please.

shop: Sure, 1 second.

shop, Hi this is ***, how can i help you.

Me: Hi, i was told to phone you as i was told you are the most experienced on the fish section.

Shop: thats right, how can help you.

Me: I have just setup a new tank, and was wondering about cycling, i have read that is a way to fishless cycle as well as cycling with fish, i was wanting some help about this.

Shop: yes thats right, cycling with fish is mainly what people do as its easier and to be fair i aint going to lie, its cheaper and most new people to the hobby are impatiant and just want fish in.. the problem is when you tell costumer about fishless cycling and it sounds so complicated to them they tend to just want to do it with hardy fish.

Me: i see, so if you have time, could you please point me in the correct direction of doing a fishless cycle?

Shop: Well you would need to buy a product that would help to cycle/mature the filter, we do sell products but after reading myself it seems not all work.. do you have the internet?

Me: yes

Shop: what i would do if i was you is read up on the internet about fishless cycling and find out what products work and dont, then maybe i can try to get you a certain product in that you want if we dont have it, you can by a product from stores that contain ammonia but this i dont know much about so it maybe best reading up about that also if you have set your mind on a fishless cycle.

Me: ok i will do that for sure.

Shop: When you have decided what you want to do, pop in or ring me and i will be happy to guide you more.

Me: ok thanks ***, i will read up on fishless cycling first and do some research before i contact you again.

Shop: Look forward to hearing from you, its nice to see someone actually not jumping in at the deepend for a change and taking time to research.

Me: i just want to whats best and not harm any fish in the making of my tank haha

Shop: haha, well im here most days so contact me anytime if you run in to any problems.

Me: Thank very much *** for your help.

shop: your welcome, have a good day.

Me: you too bye.



This i was very impressed with, especially from p@h, but i know *** and know he is pretty honest and clued up on the hobby...

Better go have a drink, putting on that husky voice done my throat in lol, phew he didnt suss me out lol

 

[shelaghfishface]

well that was a result an a half, good on that branch of pets at home and the employee for being so honest with his advice
shelagh xx

 

[tyyrlym]

I actually had that same pre-cultured media idea. Have a decent sized tank, no fish, have lots of pint sized containers in it filled with gravel and as many kinds of popular filters as possible along with some sponge filters. Feed the tank with ammonia. When someone comes in to start a tank you can sell them a used cartridge the proper size for their new filter or sell them a used sponge from the sponge filter and have them use it to seed the tank and remove it later. I don't know the price point but maybe $5 to $10 for cycled filter media and a pint of gravel would be fine by me.

Some might be more expensive, a mature biowheel would probably be expensive and hard to always have ready to go. However you could have a simple internal filter stuffed to the gills with ceramic rings and sell cups of that to most people.

Anyways one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that cycling with fish works. Like it or not tossing in a couple of platys or danios will cycle the tank if attention is paid and they are kept alive. I know, I did it. If I had it to do again I wouldn't but I did and there we are. Advising people to cycle with fish works for a LFS because it sells the customer on it right then, no delay. They walk out the store with a set up, the next day they come back for fish and away they go.

If a store tells someone to buy a tank and a bottle of ammonia and to come back in a month or two for fish they know they will lose most people's business right then. They know their customers will go find another fish store that will sell them some platys, or a bottle of cycling snakeoil (calm down Axle), or just not even mention it and let them go. For every customer they educate and convince to cycle fishlessly they know many will walk out and go find someone who will tell them they can have fish now. Like it or not your LFS is a business, and if someone is depending on their shop to pay the mortgage well then... I'd sacrifice the long term health of a few platys if it meant staying in business. Bravo if a store recommends fishless cycling right up front, heck I'd say bravo is they mention it at all and give some advice on how to do it. There's just two sides to every story.

Now, there's lots and lots of bad advice being given, some just downright stupid from any standpoint. That deserves to be fixed no matter which side you're on.

 

[connorsbala]

Good response from Pets at Home Did you try anywhere else?

 

[5teady_2012]

Good response from Pets at Home Did you try anywhere else?

Been pretty busy so aint had time, got my niece today.

 

[Zawiha]

Well i'll be darn'd!

we have evidence now that not all P@H are clueless scum!
Halleujah!

Good Job 5teady,
Lets hope we get more responses like this!

 

[raptorrex]

Like it or not your LFS is a business, and if someone is depending on their shop to pay the mortgage well then... I'd sacrifice the long term health of a few platys if it meant staying in business. Bravo if a store recommends fishless cycling right up front, heck I'd say bravo is they mention it at all and give some advice on how to do it. There's just two sides to every story.

so are you saying you would rather lie, than tell the truth, just to make yourself money? i know that's how the banking system works, but it seems a shoddy attitude for an LFS. would you take it quite so lightly if it were done to you, by a retailer from a different trade?

 

[tyyrlym]

so are you saying you would rather lie, than tell the truth, just to make yourself money? i know that's how the banking system works, but it seems a shoddy attitude for an LFS. would you take it quite so lightly if it were done to you, by a retailer from a different trade?

Did I ever say lie? No I didn't. What I said is that cycling with fish does work and cycling with fish is going to make a LFS money that would probably walk right out the door if they insisted on fishless cycling. In no way shape or form do I endorse giving bad advice like telling someone fishless cycling doesn't work but if a shop tells people they can cycle with fish and tells them how to do it appropriately I'm not going to brand them a bad shop.

People forget that even in the pet trade businesses exist to do one thing, make money. The person giving you advice in the LFS is no more impartial than the used car salesman. If you don't realize that you probably shouldn't own pets. "The guy at the LFS said..." doesn't excuse you from doing your own research.

Like I said before:

Now, there's lots and lots of bad advice being given, some just downright stupid from any standpoint. That deserves to be fixed no matter which side you're on.

"Run the filter for two weeks and it'll cycle," "Leave the danios in for a week and then start stocking as you please," etc are examples of bad and or stupid advice that's gone beyond simple salesman bias into stupidity or flat lying.

 

[Zawiha]

you have a fatal error there though.
Leaving the tank for two weeks with nothing in it, doesnt earn them money at all there.
Thats just falsified information which has been passed on.

 

[tenohfive]

Anyways one thing that needs to be kept in mind is that cycling with fish works. Like it or not tossing in a couple of platys or danios will cycle the tank if attention is paid and they are kept alive. I know, I did it. If I had it to do again I wouldn't but I did and there we are. Advising people to cycle with fish works for a LFS because it sells the customer on it right then, no delay. They walk out the store with a set up, the next day they come back for fish and away they go.
ou're on.

I agree and disagree with you. Most LFS's will advice fish in cycling and you've (imo correctly) pointed out the reasons why. But a) most don't go through the 4 cycling options (fishless, fish in, mature media or insta-bacteria) and their pro's and con's. And when suggesting a fish in cycle, they make no mention of doing more regular than usual water changes - an extra water change each week could make the difference.

The other side of it is that when advising fish in cycling without going through the other options, they're forcing people to take on fish they don't neccesarily want. When I first started I went looking for hardy fish, and settled on pearl danio's as the lesser evil - if I'd known I could have got mature media or fishless cycle and then stock the tank the way I wanted then I would have done it that way.

As for P@H Hull, thats a result. The P@H near me seems to be getting better.

 

[tyyrlym]

I agree and disagree with you. Most LFS's will advice fish in cycling and you've (imo correctly) pointed out the reasons why. But a) most don't go through the 4 cycling options (fishless, fish in, mature media or insta-bacteria) and their pro's and con's.

Well my point stands. Most shops don't sell ammonia or mature media which makes those methods unprofitable for them and businesses don't usually suggest their customers do things that will be unprofitable for the business. The instant bacteria is something I've heard being pushed in several LFS and the big chain stores.

Is it how I'd run things? Not really. I'd try to set up a mature media tank and sell it to people cheap to help them get a running start on cycling their tanks. Offer them jumpstarted fishless cycling as a good way to have a healthy tank without the length of true fishless cycling from scratch. I'd even sell them the ammonia, a dropper to measure it, and a test kit to do it with.

And when suggesting a fish in cycle, they make no mention of doing more regular than usual water changes - an extra water change each week could make the difference.

Then you're back dealing with bad advice that is worth trying to fix. If they're going to advocate fish in cycling they have to at least give you the info needed to keep the fish alive. Not to mention they're idiots because doing a fish in cycle makes it absolutely vital that you have a good test kit or the fish are as good as dead.

I think we're drifting off topic however.

As for P@H Hull, thats a result. The P@H near me seems to be getting better.

I've seen the same thing with Petsmart in the US. While the chain gets a pretty bad rep overall I have to point out that the three near where I live have well maintained fish departments with reasonibly, at times, competent staff.

 

[tenohfive]

Well my point stands. Most shops don't sell ammonia or mature media which makes those methods unprofitable for them and businesses don't usually suggest their customers do things that will be unprofitable for the business. The instant bacteria is something I've heard being pushed in several LFS and the big chain stores.

Water testing kits are very profitable things to sell to new fishkeepers - in most shops I go to I've yet to see the API master test kit for less than £30 (sorry, not sure what that is in dollars) but I've not heard of LFS employee's advocating buying a kit and doing daily tests whilst the tank is cycling. Profit doesn't explain the reason alot of LFS's do what they do.

I think the method they generally advocate is what used to be the accepted way of doing things, and the people who own or work in LFS's for any length of time are the ones who train the new employee's - I personally believe that is the reason.

 

[wackystarfish]

Good Job 5teady! I would join you on your quest but i'm allready in trouble with World of Water for some serious ranting lol some places just don't have a clue! My other LFS is run by one person, it has a good selection of fish and decent advice. They know all about fishless cycling, and also seem to like selling these new 'bactinetes'. Anyways, Good job! I'm rootin for ya!

 

[tibby25731]

Wooo 5teady! Nice to hear you got some good advice. I am looking forward to the next instalment...

 

[ALW]

WOW at P@H too! Well done 5teady and ***, what every your name is. At last someone knows how to do there job properly.