My Astatotilapia Have Eggs...

[Ludwig Venter]

This thing below (I think Astatotilapia) is the male.... the female has a mouth full of eggs.....

I'll try & get pics of her as well.

Only problem is that they are in a bare bottomed tank with only 3 rocks in plus 3 others of their species and 6 x ruby barbs (and a large Pleco)..... If I try & remove these other fish, I'm worried that she might swallow her eggs.... Literature says that this fish is critically endangered in the wild.

Edit... I again googled 'em and they are in fact Astatotilapias....

 

[Ludwig Venter]

An Interesting thing I saw when googling them is that they recommend more females for every male, as they breed with up to 3 females at a time.....

Very unusual for a cichlid, which normally "marry" one mate and remains faithful to that one....

 

[Ashy_]

I thought new world cichlids married but africans play the game

 

[dthoffsett]

Most of the Rift Lake cichlids are harem breeders where males will mate with as many females as possible.

They certainly must like your tank Ludwig, they haven't been in there very long.

IME femlaes tend to swallow their eggs or spit early with the first couple of broods, sometimes it takes them a little while to learn what to do and overcome the hunger. If you are wanting to remove the other fish you might try gently shooing her to one side of the tank and then place a divider to keep her there, then you can net out the other fish w/out stressing mum too much.

 

[Ludwig Venter]

I am surprised that she did not swallow her eggs considering the amount of abuse going on (from the other females) She was not given a moment of rest & seem to have been targetted by the rest....

So.... I decided .... regardless.... to just remove every single fish in that tank, & I've just done so (successfully) despite a lot of chasing with the net etc. (lots of hiding place between the rocks) .... She is now alone in a 3ft tank and she's still got the eggs in her mouth....

Maybe I'm lucky that she is just a devoted mother....

Yes...(dthoffsett) it's just over a week ago that I got them.... If they breed this easily, how can they be classified as critically endangered

 

[Ludwig Venter]

To me, as it is..... Allthough I have bred mouthbreeders before.... This is another breakthrough in the number of species I have bred... Brings my total to 37 species bred!....

I have bred..... Bubblenest builders..... Egg Scatterers..... Live bearers.... Egg layers..... Mouth brooders.... What remains??..... ( Killifish annuals is my next project)

 

[Ludwig Venter]

Wow!... she is some devoted mother....

I did a water change in her tank this afternoon, and she is still hanging on to those eggs....

It is now 3 days already... wondering when she will let them out??....

I have strong aeration in there... Maybe I should turn it down a little???

 

[dthoffsett]

They typically hold for 24-28 days but 32 isn't unheard of (personaly experience with a stubborn L.caeruleus ). Apparently Astatotilapia females will actually guard their fry for 1 to 2 months after spitting them which is fairly unusual.

As long as she isn't being blown around I wouldn't worry about the aeration, once she does spit you might want to turn it down as well as have some kind of sponge or fry guard on the filter intake to avoid your fry going for a ride.

 

[Ludwig Venter]

They typically hold for 24-28 days but 32 isn't unheard of (personaly experience with a stubborn L.caeruleus ). Apparently Astatotilapia females will actually guard their fry for 1 to 2 months after spitting them which is fairly unusual.

As long as she isn't being blown around I wouldn't worry about the aeration, once she does spit you might want to turn it down as well as have some kind of sponge or fry guard on the filter intake to avoid your fry going for a ride.

Thanks dthoffsett,... currently no filtering just the strong aeration....

She continuously does this chewing action, but I guess she's just twirling the eggs to circulate them a little....

I've bred Mbuna, which hatch after 3 to 4 days..... strange that this one would keep 'em for a month.

 

[dthoffsett]

She continuously does this chewing action, but I guess she's just twirling the eggs to circulate them a little....

I've bred Mbuna, which hatch after 3 to 4 days..... strange that this one would keep 'em for a month.

Not sure what species you bred, but all the mbuna I've kept or ever read about hold for 24-28 days, the fry actually hatch before the female spits them, but if I remember right they take about 14 days to hatch.

And yes the chewing action is her circulating the eggs, that's an easy way to tell if they are holding.

 

[Ferris]

If they breed this easily, how can they be classified as critically endangered

Hi Ludwig,

They are critically endangered in their natural habitat due to the persistent shrinking of said habitat - (mostly a human problem/cause). In the hobby though they are flourishing, having being bred in the Czech republic, amongst other places resulting in them often being seen in LFS - odd situation.

 

[Ludwig Venter]

She is still faithfully hanging on to those eggs....

Do I feed her in the meantime (she might swallow them if there is food)..... or do I just leave her untill the fry is free swimming.... (she might swallow them when shes hungry)

She shows definite signs of going thin.....

 

[dthoffsett]

She is still faithfully hanging on to those eggs....

Do I feed her in the meantime (she might swallow them if there is food)..... or do I just leave her untill the fry is free swimming.... (she might swallow them when shes hungry)

She shows definite signs of going thin.....

Glad to hear she's still hanging in. Don't add any food, she won't eat it or will swallow the eggs if she gets hungry enough. Like I said, they will sometimes swallow or spit early the first couple of holdings until they figure things out, so don't be too disappointed if she doesn't make it. Trust me, she will breed again. Just be sure to feed her up once she does spit and make sure when you reintroduce her to the other fish that you move all the decor around, try feeding everyone shortly before the move and keep the lights off for the rest of the day to give them a chance to settle back in. Some people have also reported luck with reintroducing them in the evening, maybe they're too tired at the end of the day to fight much. IME with aggressive mouthbrooders, reintroducing a female is the scariest part.

 

[home breeders]

stick a small bit of polystyrene on the top of the water in the tank.

the fish should act as if its a large leaf and lay the eggs under it.

if they are not bubble nesters they may like too lay the eggs on a clean bit of slate at the bottom of the tank

 

[dthoffsett]

stick a small bit of polystyrene on the top of the water in the tank.

the fish should act as if its a large leaf and lay the eggs under it.

if they are not bubble nesters they may like too lay the eggs on a clean bit of slate at the bottom of the tank

Not sure if you meant to post here or not but Ludwigs fish are mouth brooding cichlids of Lake Victoria, Africa. As such, the males will entice the females to lay eggs on a flat surface (or a nest he has dug in the sand), once the female lays the eggs the male fertilizes them, then the female scoops them back up in her mouth. Females have a buccal pouch in their throat to accomodate the eggs, the female will tumble the eggs until they hatch, she will continue to keep them in her mouth/buccal pouch until their egg sacs are absorbed (around 21- 28 days total) when she will "spit" them out. Some species, such as Ludwigs will continue to protect their brood for a couple of weeks, others ignore them after a couple of days.