Mature Water

[BethK]

I thought this would be an interesting subject

Do you believe mature water has some form of benefit in a tank, pref a new tank? Or do you believe there is no such thing as mature water?

After reading a lot of 'scientific' articles and compared them to professional hobbyist or long time hobbyists, it seems like there is a slight differ that science has seemed to forgotten. IMO, there are 2 distinctively different water conditions, esp in a new tank, fresh water (new) and mature water (old).

Mature water's bacteria count should be balanced (something that new aquarium keepers are trying to achieve), it is my belief that this water doesn't give you outbursts of algae scummy films on the water surface and is not lethal to your fish. Mature water should give you a mixed and balance level of necessary elements for the life cycle of some bacteria.

When setting up a new tank, some people will prefer to use mature/established water to help media on its way. Then there is transferring cycled media into a new tank, with new water.

I'm not a techy minded person but isn't this what cycling a tank is trying to achieve?

It may not have a high beneficiary rate as mature media but surely, it is still something you could use to help a tank along the way?

I was told the other day that there is no such thing as mature water, is that correct?

 

[kevinjames]

I thought this would be an interesting subject

Do you believe mature water has some form of benefit in a tank, pref a new tank? Or do you believe there is no such thing as mature water?

After reading a lot of 'scientific' articles and compared them to professional hobbyist or long time hobbyists, it seems like there is a slight differ that science has seemed to forgotten. IMO, there are 2 distinctively different water conditions, esp in a new tank, fresh water (new) and mature water (old).

Mature water's bacteria count should be balanced (something that new aquarium keepers are trying to achieve), it is my belief that this water doesn't give you outbursts of algae scummy films on the water surface and is not lethal to your fish. Mature water should give you a mixed and balance level of necessary elements for the life cycle of some bacteria.

When setting up a new tank, some people will prefer to use mature/established water to help media on its way. Then there is transferring cycled media into a new tank, with new water.

I'm not a techy minded person but isn't this what cycling a tank is trying to achieve?

It may not have a high beneficiary rate as mature media but surely, it is still something you could use to help a tank along the way?

I was told the other day that there is no such thing as mature water, is that correct?

i recently was given a 200l aquarium with a mature filter and high stock of fish. after moving the tank and the filter and housing the fish temporarily in a large container with heater and small filter, i set the 200l up with the same sand substrate and some of the original decor but with all fresh water. i then dechlorinated the water and left it a short while befopre switching the mature external filter on. i waited for the temp to reach 25oC and then added the fish. my thought process was that although the water was brand new, the fact that the filter was mature and also the sand substrate would still have a small % of bacteria. i thought the new water may harm a small % of the bacteria but by keeping on top of the tank stats and maintenance it wouldnt be a problem. anyway there was a slight ammonia spike but after weekly water changes 6 weeks later ive had no deaths, fish are active and the ammonia is back where it should be.

so anyway i think mature water is more beneficial but not essential. imo people who do weekly large water changes dont really get "mature water". i think when moving house and having a sensitive stocking of fish it becomes more essential to keep as much water as possible, but good healthy hardy fish should acclimatise quite well in new water.

 

[mattlee]

the bacteria needed in our tanks isnt water borne it makes its colonies on objects like media in the filter and some on the gravel and decor, but very small quantities. this is why sometimes changing the substrate can cause a mini spike.
the only good thing about used water in my eyes is if transfering fish from an old tank to a new tank then the water can be used to help the fish settle in a bit better as it will be used to the parameters of the old water. saying that though if upgrading to a larger tank the small amount of water transfered may just get so dispersed within the larger amount of water volume in the new tank that it wont really make a difference...

 

[BethK]

my only thought process is like kevin has said, the ammonia spike. The only time I didn't added matured water, was when i started my 125ltr up, i transfered all mature media over and thought it be ok, within a week, i added 3 apistos (people say it was the apistos bringing something in) but during the fish death period I had an ammonia spike.

Now my tank has settled down to normality.

 

[kevinjames]

my only thought process is like kevin has said, the ammonia spike. The only time I didn't added matured water, was when i started my 125ltr up, i transfered all mature media over and thought it be ok, within a week, i added 2 apistos (people say it was the apistos bringing something in) but during the fish death period I had an ammonia spike.

Now my tank has settled down to normality.

to be fair most healthy fish can withstand an ammonia spike without death. obviously it depends on the severity of the spike. as i said i moved a large ammount of fish including a 7inch choco cichlid and a 6 inch redtail botia aswell which produce a huge bioload of waste. but thankfully they were rehomed soon after as they where far too big for a 200l. as i said i think a mature filter is much more important then "mature water"

 

[BethK]

i agree that mature media is more important. What if you were using a new filter with media, wouldn't matured and healthy water help then?

 

[roadmaster]

I have used some water from disease free existing tanks to move fishes from these tanks, to newly set up tanks to help avoid sudden change in total dissolved solids which often helps make up the pH .
Do the same thing when acclimating fish that were just purchased to my aquariums.
Don't believe fish feel the pH so much as they do the sudden change in minerals or salts (Total dissolved solids).

Water may hold beneficial bacteria but to much lesser degree than that found on hard surfaces in the tank.
My thinking is if it's bacteria transfer one is seeking, and one has a cycled tank to provide this seed material,,, then why use the water when other materials with perhaps more bacteria on them exist?
Just my two cents.

 

[kevinjames]

i agree that mature media is more important. What if you were using a new filter with media, wouldn't matured and healthy water help then?

not massively the bacteria isnt freefloating. a new filter is best set up by seeding it with mature media from another filter.

 

[mattlee]

my only thought process is like kevin has said, the ammonia spike. The only time I didn't added matured water, was when i started my 125ltr up, i transfered all mature media over and thought it be ok, within a week, i added 2 apistos (people say it was the apistos bringing something in) but during the fish death period I had an ammonia spike.

Now my tank has settled down to normality.

if i remember right you were also using a very small filter on the 125L moved from the smaller tank, an elite stingray wasnt it....?
sometimes giving the substrate a massive clean on a tank can cause a mini spike as it can upset the tanks balance by removing some bacteria thats colonised on the gravel. also if new substrate was used then this could have played into the spike happening.
i would say that the tank was very underfiltered and with the change over some bacteria was lost, then adding 3 apistos just tipped it causing the ammonia levels to rise. on any upgrade its best to keep an eye on the water stats for a week or so just to be sure its settled and maybe lightly feed for a few days to begin with just to be cautious.

 

[Mo1959]

Just as a point of interest. My cycle was progressing very well and at the stage of totally eliminating ammonia within 24 hours. After finding out that I had gravel that was raising my ph I have recently changed over to sand. The tank was totally emptied so the substrate and water was all new but obviously filter still the same. It has caused things to have quite a set back. The last three mornings I have been getting ammonia readings again so it obviously has some effect. Hopefully, another few days and I will be back on track.

Maureen

 

[BethK]

it wasn't under-filtered, along with that filter i had 2 other forms of filter, which would be more than enough.

It's a general about mature water, I'd like a long term hobbyist to enter this conversation, see what their thoughts are it's a discussion on whether mature water is of any use.

I agree that a new set up, with mature media, needs a good week of running or more, before the more sensitive fish are added.

 

[kevinjames]

off topic but be sure not to have the sand too deep and disturb it when doing water changes. otherwise any bacteria out of flow of water may die off and cause a spike aswell. or just have loads of corys like me who go through the top layer of sand constantly.

 

[Mo1959]

Thanks for the advice Kevin. Apart from the ph problem, another reason for changing to sand is that I do quite fancy a group of corys. I did notice that after putting the sand in and refilling the tank there were loads of air bubbles in the sand. Just ran my fingers through it and got most out I think.

 

[BethK]

bacteria is a sensitive thing, sounds like my cousin

Anyway.............

 

[mattlee]

it wasn't under-filtered, along with that filter i had 2 other forms of filter, which would be more than enough.

It's a general about mature water, I'd like a long term hobbyist to enter this conversation, see what their thoughts are it's a discussion on whether mature water is of any use.

I agree that a new set up, with mature media, needs a good week of running or more, before the more sensitive fish are added.

"i've got the stingray with a sponge box filter too, been water changing every other day, no issue until i added easycarbo and then it all went down hill."

was the sponge box filter mature?
there is no such thing as mature water. there is stable water where the water has found its balance which the fish prefer compared to fluctuating water parameters which can stress a fish.
look at it this way. if you did an 80% water change after adding meds or to try and rid a tank of something you wouldnt get an ammonia spike as all the ammonia even if a trace except in the 20% of water left would have been removed. unless the water added contained ammonia this will not harm the bacteria colonies in the filter unless untreated with dechlor and will do the fish the world of good as minerals and trace elements that have been used in the old water will have been replaced with new....
huge water changes are not ideal as it will stress the fish slightly and if the new water isnt the same in temp or pH etc then this can also cause shock to the fish. this is why we acclimtise them when new to get used to our water balance before adding them into the tank.
your tap water shouldnt be too different from your tank water unless you filter peat or add chems or crushed coral etc etc to raise or lower the pH or for any other reason that the pH has lowered or gone higher. some people use aged water which has sat for a while before adding it to their tank to try and get it as close to the level of the tanks water, to let the pH settle to its natural level and to help chlorine gas out, this is more common in fish like discus that are more sensitive than a platy or cory etc