another beneficial bacteria question, to ponder...

[MaloK]

I would guess water movement over the surface of the substrate can increase the ammonia consumption... so as little as a wave maker could make a big difference???

With a good flow, no light and not moved often.

 

[fishorama]

@Rusty_Shackleford Dr.Tim H., the inventor of "bacteria in a bottle" (with the correct bacteria), also worked to create the biowheel filter. My only objection to that is all the gunk builds up & slows or stops the wheel. Since the biowheel BB is mostly on the surface layer after the wheel fibers are clogged (where the oxygen is plentiful). The "other gunk" is more like layers of biofilms (which Dr.Tim also worked on). If you clean or replace the biowheel, you lose that BB. But there should be plenty in the filter media to recover pretty quickly. I just don't need another place to clean or replace, lol.

I have some Aqua Clear filter sponges that are 20-30 years old & still going strong. Squeeze & rinse in running tap water doesn't kill off all the BB. But like I said, I like 2 filters on most tanks & stock fairly lightly.

As for substrate, with plant roots or undergravel filter, those are a great place for BB. But with only an HOB or air driven sponge filter BB are only on the top part where there's enough water movement to sustain much BB. No water (& oxygen) movement & bad things can happen. I bought an emergency battery operated air pump when I raised young discus in a bare tank. We had power outages that could last for several days. Luckily, I never had to use it. My other tanks had many plants, so I didn't worry as much. But I did do small splashy water changes to help, all my critters survived a 5 day outage with no working heaters either but we had some fireplace heat. Others were not so lucky

 

[Magnum Man]

also, I'm a little curious as to the light intolerance??? I get that the sunlight thing might be too bright, but most aquarium lights, while bright enough for plants, have little UV, that would seem a logical issue for most bacteria. but does a shaded tank have too much light for beneficial bacteria on fixtures and substrate??? and does that mean that Aquaclear filters are worthless as far as beneficial bacteria, with their translucent plastic housings, or a couple of my old hang on back filters with no covers, allowing light to get in... point being, how much is too much light???

... and then what about that "Bio Wheel" thing... those were in full light, on every application I saw??? ( admittedly I only knew of the Marineland "bio wheel", there may have been others, that functioned differently )

 

[Magnum Man]

and do my bio film eating fish consume large amounts of beneficial bacteria??? they are mostly grazing algae, but still work surfaces that don't get enough light to grow algae???

 

[AJ356]

and do my bio film eating fish consume large amounts of beneficial bacteria??? they are mostly grazing algae, but still work surfaces that don't get enough light to grow algae???

If the fish are eating the beneficial bacteria, I imagine the fish themselves will then become part of the filtration system. Like a mobile cycled filter. You could even transfer these Fish to cycle other tanks maybe.

 

[Rusty_Shackleford]

@Rusty_Shackleford Dr.Tim H., the inventor of "bacteria in a bottle" (with the correct bacteria), also worked to create the biowheel filter. My only objection to that is all the gunk builds up & slows or stops the wheel. Since the biowheel BB is mostly on the surface layer after the wheel fibers are clogged (where the oxygen is plentiful). The "other gunk" is more like layers of biofilms (which Dr.Tim also worked on). If you clean or replace the biowheel, you lose that BB. But there should be plenty in the filter media to recover pretty quickly. I just don't need another place to clean or replace, lol.

I have some Aqua Clear filter sponges that are 20-30 years old & still going strong. Squeeze & rinse in running tap water doesn't kill off all the BB. But like I said, I like 2 filters on most tanks & stock fairly lightly.

As for substrate, with plant roots or undergravel filter, those are a great place for BB. But with only an HOB or air driven sponge filter BB are only on the top part where there's enough water movement to sustain much BB. No water (& oxygen) movement & bad things can happen. I bought an emergency battery operated air pump when I raised young discus in a bare tank. We had power outages that could last for several days. Luckily, I never had to use it. My other tanks had many plants, so I didn't worry as much. But I did do small splashy water changes to help, all my critters survived a 5 day outage with no working heaters either but we had some fireplace heat. Others were not so lucky

Yeah I'm very aware of Dr. Tim and his work for Marineland. I actually got to share sushi and beers with him one evening .

I've never had an issue with gunk on a bio wheel. I'm my experience the thing that really slows the spin or causes it to pause is low flow. Low flow most often caused by a dirty filter cartridge or a dirty impeller.
I'm in the process of modifying my filters with bio wheels. I'm tired of buying the disposable cartridges and I'm replacing them with 2" 30 ppi foam. I plan on keeping the bio wheels running as well. Lots of space for BB.

 

[TwoTankAmin]

@Magnum Man

also, I'm a little curious as to the light intolerance???

Merbt, Stephanie N., David A. Stahl, Emilio O. Casamayor, Eugenia Martı, Graeme W. Nicol, and James I. Prosser. "Differential photoinhibition of bacterial and archaeal ammonia oxidation." FEMS Microbiol Lett 327 (2011): 41-46.

Abstract
Inhibition by light potentially influences the distribution of ammonia oxidizers in aquatic environments and is one explanation for nitrite maxima near the base of the euphotic zone of oceanic waters. Previous studies of photoinhibition have been restricted to bacterial ammonia oxidizers, rather than archaeal ammonia oxidizers, which dominate in marine environments. To compare the photoinhibition of bacterial and archaeal ammonia oxidizers, specific growth rates of two ammonia-oxidizing archaea (Nitrosopumilus maritimus and Nitrosotalea devanaterra) and bacteria (Nitrosomonas europaea and Nitrosospira multiformis) were determined at different light intensities under continuous illumination and light/dark cycles. All strains were inhibited by continuous illumination at the highest intensity (500 lE m 2 s 1). At lower light intensities, archaeal growth was much more photosensitive than bacterial growth, with greater inhibition at 60 lE m 2 s 1 than at 15 lE m 2 s 1, where bacteria were unaffected. Archaeal ammonia oxidizers were also more sensitive to cycles of 8-h light/16-h darkness at two light intensities (60 and 15 lE m 2 s 1) and, unlike bacterial strains, showed no evidence of recovery during dark phases. The findings provide evidence for niche differentiation in aquatic environments and reduce support for photoinhibition as an explanation of nitrite maxima in the ocean.
Full paper: https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/36073410.pdf

 

[TwoTankAmin]

So, Dr. Hovanec who has the following education/experience

After studying limnology at Uppsala University in Sweden, Dr. Hovanec graduated from San Diego State University with a B.S. in Biology and an M.S. in Biology.

Dr. Hovanec earned his Ph.D. in Ecology, Evolution and Marine Biology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, where he investigated the phylogenetics of nitrifying bacteria in aquaria and Mono Lake, California. Dr. Hovanec was the first to demonstrate that bacteria of the phylum Nitrospira were the active nitrite-oxidizing bacteria in aquatic systems such as aquaria. His work on nitrifying bacteria has led to the discovery of many new species of nitrifying bacteria in freshwater and saltwater systems and the granting of several U.S. and foreign patents, with additional patents pending. He has also conducted much research on topics such as ammonia excretion and toxicity in aquatic organisms, bio-filtration systems design and fish feed formulations.

He states this in his pdf "PRESCRIPTION FOR FISHLESS CYCLING A NEW AQUARIUM" using, "DrTim’s Aquatics One & Only® Live Nitrifying Bacteria and Ammonium Chloride" writes this in his Day 4 Instructions (bold, italics and underlining done by me).

Day 4: 1. Test ammonia, nitrite, and pH. Record the values in the chart below for day 4.
2. During the cycling process, if your pH drops below 7, perform a 25-30% water change, removing water
from the top of the tank and not the bottom. Don’t disturb the substrate, filter media or the filter pad.
https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/wp-c...FishlessCycling_prescription_recipe_Nov23.pdf


If you read his initial peer reviewed paper on this subject published in 1996, he refers to the location of the substrate colonies in Table 2.
Comparative Analysis of Nitrifying Bacteria Associated with Freshwater and Marine Aquaria. Applied and Environmental Microbiology Vol. 62, No. 8: 2888-2896.