Lost 5 guppies in brand new tank - what to do next

[bgarthe26 43]

If you do extra feeding for excess food for one guppy, what’s going to happen is not as you seem to believe. Follow me….
1. You put excess food in tank with your guppy.
2. Ammonia levels rise to higher levels than would happen w one fish…..perhaps dangerously so.
3. Then (after your food has generated much more ammonia which is in the water), the bb will grow to reduce it.
4. Meanwhile (until the bb get up in numbers) your fish is in water for hours or days that has more ammonia than would naturally occur……not good.
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Please choose from one of the following and do not deviate from the procedure. Mixing concepts for fish in cycling with fishless cycling is dicey. Building ammonia with excess food is a fishless concept except you have a fish in the tank starting a fish in cycle with its own ammonia production for its body being multiplied by the excess food generated ammonia.
1. Fish in cycling
2. Seeded fish in cycling
3. KaveMan fish in w Prime/Stability(bb)
4. Fishless

You mean well and are doing your best for your guppy, but might be trying to do too much with bits of different cycling methods which could be a detriment.
So far, I have read about your cycling with KaveMan tactics, fish in tactics, and now some fishless tactics with the excess food.
Please don’t overfeed. Too much excess food in the water is almost always the precursor of troubles w nitrogenous bacteria, water quality, non nitrogenous bacteria, and often effectively becomes pollution.

 

[Swampman3 2]

I set up a 10 gallon tank as described in my Journal thread (link) And doing what I thought was the Kave Man Aquatics Seachem Prime & Stability routine, I put in 5 small guppied yesterday. All were dead this morning.

Log of activities:

04/27 1:00 p.m. EST- Finished setting up tank, undergravel filter, Marina S10 HOB filter, heater, thermometer, and did one ghost feeding.
Added one capful of Seachem Prime, one capful of Seachem Stability

04/28 1:00 p.m. EST - Dosed with 25 drops of Prime (eye dropper bottle) and half capful of stability. Added 5 small guppies, left light off for 3 hours.

04/28 6:00 p.m. EST - Very lightly fed with Fluval Bug Bites. They were not interested, so no more food that evening.

04/28 8:00 p.m. EST - Fish looked active, had started exploring the tank rather than all hanging out in one corner. Turned light off.

04/29 9:00 a.m. EST - Went to turn light on, five dead guppies

After disposing of the fish, I dropped water about 20% and took the opportunity to remove some gravel, rearrange the plants and heater, topped off water, dosed with 25 drops Prime and half capful of Stability. I figure there is some ammonia in the tank from the one ghost feeding, the fish being in there for 18 hours or so and one feeding. What to do now?

I'm not going to risk 5 more fish, that's for sure. I am tempted to add a single guppy, and continue with the Prime/Stability and wait a week. My API Master Test Kit arrives Friday. If I don't kill that one fish, I will add guppies, maybe 1 or 2 at a time once nitrates show up? Is this the right approach?

Open to any suggestions at all. I'm guessing I misunderstood the Kave Man Aquatics fish-in cycling thinking I could load it up. Maybe it's just to reduce stress no one fish? Thanks for any help.

The tank was never cycled. Cycled means the Nitrogen cycle. Prime and Stability only take the chlorine out of the water. Do not buy any more fish. They will die. Instead of me writing about cycling a tank. Look at You Tube videos or read Fish Forms on how to cycle. If you do what is said. It will take 4-6 weeks. I'll give you a head start. There are many cycling product on Amazon. Nitrifying bio is what you are looking for. Use that and you need a feeder for the bacteria . Fish food. A good pinch ever couple of days. Next you need a water test kit. API kit is the one I use. Test strips are not accurate. That is the only way to know when the tank has cycled. DO NOT USE FISH TO CYCLE. Good luck to you I hope this helps.

 

[JCinPA2]

Thanks for the warnings, I appreciate them, a noob has to be cautious. But you'll see here I'm clearly not creating any dangerous conditions for the fish.

05/05/26 10:30 a.m. EST

Temp: 77.5 F
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: 0.25 (NH3 0.0037 per online calculator)
Nitrates: 0
Nitrates: 0

Fish looks very healthy, very active, perfectly happy. He's not big enough to really raise any waste levels in the tank, apparently. I'm glad I put the Tetra Safestart in, may not help but can't hurt.

It's going to be a long process, but I'm glad he's doing well.

 

[JCinPA2]

@Swampman I know ALL of that. Thanks for the post anyway. I have the API test kit, I know the tank is not cycled. I'm not buying any more fish until it is. I did put a nitrifying bacteria product in the other day, Tetra Safestart.

The tank is in good shape and the one fish is healthy, thank God, I know it's going to take a month or more to cycle. It's on the way. No more fiddling.

 

[TwoTankAmin20]

Once again I see anecdotal overriding the science. So I will just quote the PhD on this, Dr. Hpovanec on using fish foods to create ammonia.

How to Fishless Cycle​

There are a few different ways to fishless cycle your aquarium which are described below. All have the basic steps of adding ammonia from some source instead of live fish and waiting until the ammonia can be converted to nitrate quickly, at which point the tank is considered cycled and you can start to add fish. To be sure the tank has cycled, you should buy ammonia and nitrite test kits and make sure all the ammonia is converted to nitrate with no trace of nitrite within 24 hours before adding fish. Beware, however, during the fishless cycling, only enough bacteria will be established to take care of the ammonia added to the tank during the cycling period. If you add so many fish that they produce a lot more ammonia than was added during the fishless cycling, you may see some ammonia and nitrite but these should disappear after a day or two – more information is given below about how to complete the process. (The red color below has been added to the text by me,)

Using shrimp or fish food​

One of the more popular fishless cycling methods is to buy a few dead shrimp at the grocery store, cut them up into chunks and add them to the aquarium. The shrimp decay, which produces ammonia to feed the nitrifying bacteria. There are a few drawbacks with this method, one being that the hobbyist really has no way to know how much ammonia is being produced by the decaying shrimp, and the aquarium does not look very good with dead shrimp laying on the bottom. Also, the organic material of the shrimp can cause bacteria blooms which turn the aquarium water cloudy. This method works but it takes time and patience and you will probably see a spike in ammonia and nitrite if you add a medium to heavy load of fish after the initial cycling. Note that some people use flake fish food instead of shrimp but this is not recommended because flake food does not have much organic material compared to shrimp and so does not add a lot of ammonia to the water, but you can use cut fish instead of shrimp. Hint: to speed up the decay of the shrimp/fish and produce more ammonia, add some DrTim’s Aquatics Waste-Away sludge busting bacteria to the tank.

Using ammonium chloride​

This is the other most popular way to cycle a fishless aquarium. Simply add chemical ammonia to the aquarium water and let the process cycle. The benefits of this method are that the tank does not cloud up with a bacteria bloom and you don’t have to look at an aquarium with dead cut up shrimp or fish on the bottom. Plus you can somewhat accurately determine the amount of ammonia being added to the tank.
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When I began doing fishless cycles I used regular ammonia from the supermarket. It had no added scents etc. but it did contain surfacatnats, Back then one dosed ammonia almost daily which was the wrong way to go. Fishless cycling improved over time. These days we have a few options. Both Dr. Tim and Fritz make a liquid ammonium chloride and Fritz also offers it in a dry form. I use that since i usually had to cycle 6 to 8 tanks at a time. My initial bio-farm existed to keep filters taken off of a tank cycled by dosing ammonia etc. I would have 2 or three filters being kept cycled. Then I learned to cycle filter in the bio-farm not tanks. Doing this requires a lot more knowledge than cycling a single tank.

I should mention that when I was using the store ammonia that I did regular water changes during the cycling and also ran carbon at the end after doing an 80%+ final water change when the tank tested as being cycled. I then ususally waited 12- 24 hours to add fish to be completely safe.

Btw- when I suggested that the red line for ammonia (NH3) in a tank was 0.05 ppm, I was being conservative. Many fish are able to handle more than this over the short terms (days maybe a week or two tops). Also, while ammonium (NH4) is way less toxic, that does not mean any level of exposure for any a mount of time is still safe.

Btw- SeaChem actually knows what is in Stability is not living nitrifying bacteria. If you know where to look on their, site you will find this:
http://www.seachem.com/Library/SeaGrams/Biofiltration.pdf

Note the above on SeaChem was written before Dr. Hovanec discovered that it is not Nitrobacter doing the nitrite to nitrate conversion but rather it is strains of Nitrospira that do this. But, both of these nitrite oxidizers are similar in that they do not form spores and tthat hey reproduce by cell division.

 

[JCinPA2]

Well, that was super-helpful! I'm using some flake which is why the ammonia is not going up much. I do not want it to, I'm more concerned about the fish's health than speed here. Regarding this:

Btw- when I suggested that the red line for ammonia (NH3) in a tank was 0.05 ppm, I was being conservative. Many fish are able to handle more than this over the short terms (days maybe a week or two tops). Also, while ammonium (NH4) is way less toxic, that does not mean any level of exposure for any a mount of time is still safe.

I WANT to be conservative. I already screwed up by not going fishless in the first place. I don't want to be adding any meaningful ammonia from any source while he's in there. I was just hoping to goose it a little bit as Tetra Safestart has a pretty good reputation. But I'm not doing anything to jeopardize this fish.

Anyway, you can see A) I know how to use the test kit now, and B) I'm not getting any but the most negligible amounts of ammonia. I think I'll quit posting in here until I have a problem or nitrates start to show up. No point in posting daily "there's almost no ammonia" readings. The little guy is a little less than an inch and he won't cycle this 10 gallon very fast. I'm in for a long, boring slog, but that's OK.

I'll report any problem or when the cycle is complete. Aside from being alone he looks very healthy and active, which is how I want him to stay.

 

[Essjay25 140]

nitrates start to show up

Keep an eye on nitrite, that's the next stage. Unfortunately there is no 'safe' form of nitrite. it's all toxic. If that starts to appear, post that

 

[JCinPA2]

I will keep up with the daily tests, for sure.

 

[JCinPA2]

Well, something did change. pH went up from 7.4 to 7.8-8.0 I wonder what's causing that? Today's readings:

05/06/26 9:30 am EST

Temp: 77.5
pH: 7.8 - 8.0 (between colors, I did it twice because it surprised me)
Ammonia: 0.25 (NH3 = 0.009)
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5

Fish is active, looks great. Flits all over the tank.

I'm thinking the dose of Tetra Safestart may have been beneficial. I don't expect instant cycling, but ammonia never budges (I know it's one small fish in a 10 gallon, but he has to be producing some, right?), and nitrates appear to have just come off the floor. I'm not going to read too much into this for a couple more days, but if I see any increase in nitrates and ammonia and nitrite stay on the floor for several days, I'll consider adding 2 more guppies, no more, I want to be very gradual about this, it seems to be working as advertised.

What could be causing the rise in pH? I'd like to get it back down to 7.4-ish which seems ideal. I've heard excessive aeration can drive off CO2 which could raise pH, so I might turn down the air pump driving the UGF. Flow rate is not so critical since he's clearly not driving up ammonia much and I seem to have some bacteria growth taking care of it. I've also read putting a piece of driftwood in there could help. I'm not wanting to do a water change if I can avoid it since the cycle seems to be progressing, albeit slowly. What don't I understand about pH?

Thanks!

P.S. Found a product on Amazon, API pH Down. OK to use?

P.P.S I just remembered I got that GH and KH test kit. Going to test that now, I think it may be related.

 

[Essjay25 140]

Please do not use any pH altering chemical. All they do is pull the pH up or down (whichever type) then the pH bounces back to what it was. They also add extra chemicals to the tank and we should add a few chemicals as possible.

The actual pH is not critical as long as there are no huge swings - and yours isn't huge.

Things that can increase pH -
Ammonia in water is basic so it will increase the pH. Your ammonia is low, so there isn't enough to impact the pH.
The time of day a test is done can also affect the pH, particularly when there are a lot of plants in the tank. When the tank lights are on plants take up carbon dioxide to use in photosynthesis. CO2 in water is acidic so when it is removed by the plants the pH increases. At night when there is no light the plants do not take up CO2, they make it by respiration as do any fish in the tank. The increase in CO2 concentration at night lowers the pH. This may well not be the cause of your pH difference but it is worth bearing in mind.
Rocks can also change the pH. Chalk, limestone, tufa etc are calcium carbonate and they dissolve very slowly increasing pH, GH and KH.

 

[JCinPA2]

Did the hardness kit tests

KH = 3
GH = 9

Not sure what to do with this information. So far I have no plants in the tank, I plan to do that later. Would it be helpful to add a piece of driftwood? Or should I just not worry about it for now?

Thanks much, @Essjay

 

[Essjay25 140]

Your KH is quite low - it's the same as mine. KH is what stabilises pH, it reacts with acidic chemicals to stop the pH falling. When KH is low it can get used up allowing pH to fall, but that's the opposite of what yours is doing.

At the moment, I would do nothing except keeping an eye on it. You are cycling which can affect parameters such as pH.

Once the tank is cycled and the fish stock are at their final level, you will need to make sure you do regular water changes to top up the KH which is used up by natural processes in the water or risk a pH crash. That happened to me and was the thing which sent me on-line to find out why. It was because I was overstocked and did small infrequent water changes (that's what the library books said to do, I used them for reference as we only got broadband in 2004). I increased the amount and frequency and the pH hasn't crashed since.

 

[JCinPA2]

Thanks! I don’t plan to overstock this tank, no need. It is proving to be a terrific learning laboratory for me, however!

I found this helpful. Like most of these articles, I'll need to read it a couple more times for it to really sink in. lol

The Fish Keeper’s Guide to pH, GH, and KH | Water Chemistry 101

This practical guide for beginners explains what these water chemistry terms mean, when you should test for them, and how to raise or lower them if needed.

www.aquariumcoop.com

 

[JCinPA2]

I said I would not add anything until there was a change. Well, today, ammonia finally read zero. Still no nitrites or nitrates (they are at base) so the cycle is not finished. Last week, I got two new guppies from the receptionist at my auto mechanic who keeps a guppy tank in the office and wanted to offload a couple of males. She had a Petsmart bag handy so I took them. Added another dose of Tetra Safestart, and over the last week ammonia never got over 0.25 PPM (NH3 <0.009), so I think the Safestart had a hand in that.

Won't add any more until I see nitrates show up, leaving it at the three for now. Water is stable, fish are active, and eating well.

05/11/26 11:00 am EST

Temp: 77.5
pH: 7.4
Ammonia: finally zero
Nitrite: 0
Nitrate: 5 (base)

Fish still look terrific. Very active. Waiting on rest of the cycle.

 

[JCinPA2]

05/22/26 11:00 am EST

Change - Nitrates are finally above 5 PPM (tap water base level). They are not quite at 10 PPM yet but it definitely darkened up from the 5 PPM level.

This was Day 7 after adding 3 more guppies to the 3 I had and using an entire bottle of Tetra Safestart. There never was any measurable ammonia or nitrite, so the first bottle of Safestart had started things on their way, but the bioload was so low it was just pokey.

I will stop posting here, I think I'm finally cycled, although I will go another week watching the nitrate reading and then do a water change. I will add my last fish, a honey gourami, next weekend, for a total of 6 guppies and one honey gourami. Then I'll start looking into plants.

Thanks for all the help! Knowing about fishless cycling now, I'll never do this again, but I would recommend Tetra Safestart or Dr. Tim's One and Only (identical products) may get someone out of trouble with a low bioload of fish without removing them. My water is still a bit cloudy, but I see it starting to clear today, as well.

Def go fishless, but Dr. Tim's and Tetras bacteria products are really lifesavers for someone who screws up and has fish too soon.