My new honey gourami is not eating, what should I do?

[JCinPA3]

So, I had what I thought was a honey gourami, the smaller chuna, but I accidentally got the larger labiosa. I rehomed the labiosa, and got a true honey gourami, trichogaster chuna, on Monday. It is now Friday.

It looks fine. After hiding out for the first few hours (I left the lights off first day) he started exploring the tank, swimming through a hollow log decoration, hanging out front. There are six male guppies in with it, and they seem to ignore it and it ignores them, not bothered by them at all. But when I feed, it just ignores the food. I've seen it eat one or two small bits of Aquarium Co-op magic small fish food, but only a couple bites over 4 days. Today I fed the small fish food to the guppies to keep them occupied up top and submerged and dropped some Fluval Bug Bites literally right on top of the gourami. They were falling all around and it ignores it. The guppies pick at the gravel for anything that fell for about an hour and the labiosa used to do that as well, but this one? Nope.

Otherwise it looks fine, good color, swimming around, seems comfortable and secure, just not eating. Should I be worried? What can I do?

 

[Boundava5 3]

Most gourami (shaped like the honey) prefer to eat from the surface. Do you have some flake food or floating pellets small enough to fit in its mouth?

 

[JCinPA3]

I understand that, but he does not go up to eat when I feed. And the first gourami fed at the surface but scoured the gravel with the guppies very thoroughly. This one just is uninterested in eating. I can't figure it out. He's even watching the guppies eating, albeit mid-water and ignoring the food. Based on the behavior of the first gourami, this is bizarre behavior and I'm getting a little worried after four days of basically not eating.

 

[Back in the fold]

Unless this is an overly stressed fish or sick in some way that is not now readily apparent I think it will start eating eventually . All you can do is watch and wait . I will , however , use this opportunity to recommend live wingless fruit flies . No surface feeding fish can resist them .

 

[GaryE27 142]

A lot of my fish have zero interest in pellets. Flake can be a different story, as can frozen foods. He may also be grazing when you aren't around.

 

[JCinPA3]

As long as he appears healthy, I'll just keep observing him. He does not appear to be stressed, but this is a new home for him. I've just not seen a fish uninterested in eating before. They are usually pretty excited around feeding time.

 

[MattW27 143]

Is there constant surface movement? When I had my female honey she would pick at flakes that got trapped in the dead areas usually amongst the frog bit. Tbf though she eventually went for food mid column when other fish did.

 

[JCinPA3]

There is some surface movement. I have a UGF with lift tube vents facing front of the thank, and an AquaClear AC20 with a 20 PPI pad to diffuse the flow.

 

[JCinPA3]

Well, I did some close observation for about 10 minutes at last feeding. New guy has ick. It was not visible before but is just starting to become visible. I did a quick Google. com AI investigation session, and while I know the views here are quite mixed about it, I found it incredibly helpful, as I have in the past. On factual stuff like this disease and types of fish, it is very good indeed. I learned:

• It was probably due to my bringing him home on Monday, the stress allowed the parasite to take hold
• Lack of appetite was a symptom
• It's relatively easy to treat if caught early
• The gourami needs half doses because of its labyrinth organ
• Of the product choices I said were available it suggested the API product was best and gave reasoning
• It calculated the dose for my tank given gallons (10) and gravel depth (2") and calculated a dose of 2.5ml is correct
• It said the treatment won't affect my healthy guppies
• Said leave lights off for 5 days (affects the medicine, I think)
• I asked about raising the temperature it suggested no, leave it at 78F with reasoning
• Said to remove carbon (I had some purigen in there, removed that)
• Second dose in 48 hours
• 25% WC and add back carbon on day 5
• It asked about aeration and suggested an airstone, when I said I run both a UGF and HOB, it said don't bother
• Said UGF is good because "the ich parasites fall off the fish into the substrate and the UGF will pull them down and prevent them from swimming back up to reinfect the fish, and will pull the medicated water through the substrate while they are there."

It detailed why 78F is good for this. At higher temperatures it makes the medicine more toxic but it will maintain a fast enough life cycle for the ich parasites, so said leave it alone. I was pretty impressed with the advice given. Of course, would love to gain any more I can get from you good people, but I have the cure started now.

 

[GaryE27 142]

The lights off is wrong - advice for treating a different parasite, Oodinium. It photosynthesizes. It's a mix up you often see on beginner forums, and I guess the AI picked it up. Mr or Ms AI sounds like a lovely conversationalist, but everyone makes mistakes.
A honey gourami is good in the eighties fahrenheit, but I wouldn't raise it. Heat is a desperation Ich remedy if you don't have Malachite green based meds, but it doesn't always work. It accelerates the parasite's life cycle to weaken it.

I've never seen that about UGF. All of your fish now have Ich, and it bursts out of the cysts in the millions where it's genetically disrupted by the copper based dye. Catch it early, and it's a nuisance. Leave it, and in a tank, Ich can wipe you out.

Honeys get through it well. T. lalia, the dwarf gourami, are not very ich resistant, and are in the 'ich magnet' category. You should knock it off fast if you have already put the meds in. I have always gone full dose as I have never had it here on scaleless fish (who need lower doses).

You've got this. Those Ich are doomed.

 

[JCinPA3]

Yep. Not sure it was all correct, I’m almost certain all of it is not, and it surveys a mix of forums and technical sources. But its distillation of forum info is not likely to be better … or worse than here. I realize that.

But once I recognized what it was and had that exchange, it wasn’t 90 minutes before I had the meds in.

I very much appreciate your advice. The lights are probably the least important thing the AI gave me, I doubt whether it matters much. But the dosage is important. I’m glad I half-dosed it today, but is love to hear what others think about that before the second dose.

About the two doses. 5 days, the. WC and car in, wha redo you fine folks think??

 

[JCinPA3]

@GaryE Well, a little more research and you are proven correct, it is the other parasite that they recommend for sure keeping the lights off. Learned if you want to keep the lights off it would be only to reduce stress on the fish during treatment, nothing to do with the parasite or the medication.

It also said that the ingredients in the API cure can be harmful to anabantoids particularly scaleless varieties. I checked with two AIs. You've noted no issues using it before, and the directions for it on the API website indicate 5ml for 5 gallons of water. Assuming I have about 8 gallons a full dose would be 8ml. Erring on the side of caution, I just put another ml in the tank for 3.5 ml total. It says to dose again in 48 hours, which I will do, probably 4ml that time. On day 5 I will do the WC and add back the Purigen. I hope that is sufficient.

Any other intel welcome! Again, I like AI but I do not view it as artificial intelligence, per se, just a turbo-charged search engine. GIGO applies. But for a quick hit source to get me going in the right direction, to be fine-tuned here, I think it's pretty good. Anyway, it got me on top of this issue really quickly. The meds can add to stress, so I will keep the lights out for the next 5 days for that reason alone.

Please keep ideas coming.

 

[JCinPA3]

UPDATE:
I asked this of the AI: What is the best treatment for honey gourami with ich?
Details in my case: I have a 10 gallon tank containing 6 guppies and one honey gourami I brought home 4 days ago. The gourami was fine for a couple days, became lethargic and stopped eating yesterday, and I spotted the cysts today (Day 4). I removed carbon, and my tank has both a UGF (air powered) and an AquaClear AC20 HOB filter, so well-oxygenated. Temperature is about 78F. I dosed with 3.5 ml of API Super Ick Cure (2" of gravel, I was guesstimating 8 gallons) having read that anabantoids are more stressed by the medication than the guppies, but I refrained from raising the temperature. Any suggestions? I was planning on a second dose on day 3 and a 25% water change and reintroduce carbon on day 5. Should I do longer?

I got the following...


You should definitely treat for longer than the standard 5-day product cycle, especially because you kept the temperature at 78°F.
At 78°F, the Ich parasite's lifecycle takes roughly 5 to 7 days to complete. If you stop treating and reintroduce carbon on Day 5, you risk re-infecting the tank right as the cysts in your gravel begin hatching into their free-swimming, infectious stage. [1]


You should definitely treat for longer than the standard 5-day product cycle, especially because you kept the temperature at 78°F.
At 78°F, the Ich parasite's lifecycle takes roughly 5 to 7 days to complete. If you stop treating and reintroduce carbon on Day 5, you risk re-infecting the tank right as the cysts in your gravel begin hatching into their free-swimming, infectious stage. [1]
Adjust your current approach using the following protocol to eradicate the parasite completely and safely:

1. Correct the Dosing Shortfall

• The Problem: Your 3.5 mL under-dose (intended for 8 gallons) combined with the 2 inches of gravel means the medication concentration is too weak to fully kill the free-swimming parasites. Honey Gouramis and Guppies handle standard malachite green formulations exceptionally well. Under-dosing only allows the Ich to build up a resistance. [1]
• The Fix: Treat the tank as a full 10 gallons. Bring the next dose on Day 3 up to the full manufacturer-recommended amount of 10 mL (or 2 teaspoons). [1, 2]

2. Extend the Treatment Timeline

• Do not add carbon back on Day 5. [1]
• On Day 5, instead of stopping, perform a 25% water change and thoroughly vacuum the gravel. Your Under-Gravel Filter (UGF) pulls water down through the substrate, meaning a high concentration of Ich cysts are currently nesting right in your gravel bed. [1, 2]
• Add a third full dose (10 mL) right after that water change. [1]
• Continue repeating this cycle (Water Change + Grav-Vac + Redose) every 48 hours until you have seen absolutely zero white spots on any fish for a minimum of 3 consecutive days. [1, 2, 3]

3. Maintain 78°F and Maximize Your Filters

• Keeping your temperature at 78°F was a safe play to minimize respiratory stress on your lethargic gourami. Keep it there.
• Because you have both an air-powered UGF and an AquaClear 20, your water oxygenation is excellent. Leave both running constantly throughout the entire extended treatment. [1, 2]

I'd love reactions to that. Underdosing appears to be not well-determined since I've gotten conflicting advice.

 

[JCinPA3]

Here's my plan after watching this video

• Today was day 1 of medication.
• I'm raising the temperature gradually to 82F
• Day three I will do another dose of medication
• Day 5 I will do a 25% water change and a third dose of medication
• I will observe the fish, and continue this regimen (25% change new dose) until I see no spots for 3 consecutive days
• Then do a 50% water change and add carbon.

Does this all sound correct? I'm getting up to speed on this, I think, but like learning about the cycling, it's a lot of information.

 

[Naughts27 99]

No, you either use meds or use heat, not both.