Jmac's New Fishless Cycle Log

[JMcQueen]

Hi Everyone,

I've had to start a new tank today as my one and only fish died. Therefore to try and minimise the chances of this happening again Im going to do a fish out cycle. No media has been added from an established set up and Im aiming for a 'add and wait cycle'. I have to stress from the off that this a 30 litre coldwater tank. So, to start with I've emptied the tank and thoroughly cleaned it, rinsed all the contents under tap water with the intent of the chlorine killing any bacteria that may be there (good or bad) and thus starting from scratch. I've refilled with 30litres of water and treated it with Tetra Aquasafe to dechlorinate. I then added about 1.5-2.0 ml of ammonia solution @ 9.5% and waited a while for it to circulate. These are the first days readings (I havent got a ph kit yet but will do by the weekend hence the NA).

(Nutrafin Test Kits)
Tap Water Bench Mark: Ammonia 0, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-50
Day 1, Time 18:30, Temp 10oC, Ammonia 4.9, Nitrite 0, Nitrate 20-50, PH NA
Day 2, Time 18:20, Temp 21oC, Ammonia <4.9, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate >50, PH NA
Day 3, Time 18:30, Temp 21oC, Ammonia <4.9, Nitrite 0.8, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 4, Time 18:30, Temp 21oC, Ammonia <4.9, Nitrite 0.8, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 5, Time 18:30, Temp 19oC, Ammonia <4.9, Nitrite 0.8, Nitrate >40, PH NA
Day 6, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.8, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 7, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 8, Time 22:00, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 9, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 10, Time 18:30, Temp 19oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 11, Time 18:40, Temp 19oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 12, Time 19:00, Temp 19oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 13, Time 18:30, Temp 19oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 14, Time 18:30, Temp 19oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 15, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 16, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 17, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH NA
Day 18, Time 18:30, Temp 20oc, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH >7.6
Day 19, Time 18:30, Temp 20oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH >7.6

Conducted 80% water change and redosed with 2.0ml of Ammonia. Filter and media left unchanged and covered in water during the change.

Day 20, Time 19:00, Temp 22oC, Ammonia 4.9, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50
Day 21, Time 19:00, Temp 22oC, Ammonia 4.9, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50

Missed two days testing due to working away from home but also added a heater to try and improve things

Day 24, Time 19:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 4.9, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50
Day 25, Time 23:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite (trace), Nitrate (not tested)
Day 26, Time 11:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 20, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 2.4)
Day 27, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 1.0, Nitrite (trace), Nitrate 50, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.9)
Day 28, Time 21:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH 8
Day 29, Time 20:30, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH 8
Day 30, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH 8
Day 31, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH 8
Day 32, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH 8
Day 33, Time 19:15, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.9)
Day 34, Time 20:00, Temo 29oC, Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.9)
Day 35, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH 8
Day 36, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.9)
Day 37, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.6, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 50, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.0)
Day 38, Time 20:15, Temp 29oC, Ammonia <0.6, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.0)
Day 39, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.0)
Day 40, Time 20:30, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed ammonia back to 4.0)


Start 12 hour sampling

Day 41, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 1.2, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 110, PH 8
Day 41, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 42, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitirte 0.3, Nitrate 110, PH 8
Day 42, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 43, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 43, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH 8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 44, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 2.4, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 20, PH8
Day 44, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 1.0, Nitrite 0.8, Nitrate 20, PH8
Day 45, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 20, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 45, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 50, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 46, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 46, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 47, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.3, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 47, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 48, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 48, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 49, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 49, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 50, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 50, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 51, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 51, Time 20:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8 (Redosed to 4.0)
Day 52, Time 08:00, Temp 29oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 100, PH8

Performed 90% water change. Fish gone in.

Day 52, Time 20:00, Temp 21oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 53, Time 08:00, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 53, Time 20:00, Temp 27oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.1, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 54, Time 08:00, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 54, Time 20:00, Temp 26oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH8
Day 55, Time 08:00, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 50, PH8
Day 55, Time 20:00, Temp 27oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 56, Time 08:00, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 56, Time 20:00, Temp 26oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 57, Time 08:00, Temp 25oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8
Day 57, Time 20:00, Temp 27oC, Ammonia 0.0, Nitrite 0.0, Nitrate 110, PH8

 

[Dan-CR4]

if you wish add do an image file like was on my cycle(see link in my signature), you need to do a screen grab, and then save the screen grab in a program like photoshop or paintshop. I used photoshop to do mine. Maybe someone knows an easier mehtod to do this.

what test kit are you using, is it nutrafin or api or another make?
Do a test on your tap water as well and leave the results on your first post? just so the people who look over this post know what your tap water results. Another good idea will to put up the size/dimensions of your tank as well in your first post, all this info will help the guys here see you through your cycle, but so far it looks like you know what you are doing

I finished my cycle 2 weeks ago with the help from the guys here, im not sure how a coldwater fishless cycle will work as I have only done tropical, the more experianced guys will know more than I, so im sure they will all give you the right advice.

Good luck

 

[JMcQueen]

Thanks Dan, I've added the information you suggested.

 

[JMcQueen]

Thanks Dan, I've added the information you suggested.

I've just done the second day readings and the ammonia has dropped a little but not enough to drop a full section of colour on the indicator chart and the nitrite has gone up fractionally. Is it normal for this to happen so soon??

 

[JMcQueen]

Ok, so my nitrite seems to be slowly rising but the ammonia hasnt dropped sufficiently to warrent a colour chart drop. Of course, the nitrite could be down to error interpretting the colours since the shades are so similar.

 

[waterdrop]

I guess we can safely assume you don't want to buy a heater?

 

[OldMan47]

Don't forget that a single 1 ppm of ammonia will become 2.7 ppm of nitrites. It is entirely possible to start seeing small nitrite levels without detecting a change in ammonia levels.

 

[JMcQueen]

It seems to have plateaud a little lately after a bright start. Though yesterdays readings were a little strange. Largely unchanged but the nitrites looked like they had dropped with no change to either ammonia or nitrate.

 

[JMcQueen]

Ok, now Im concerned.

The nitrite is definitely dropping, it was scarcely measurable tonight but ammonia and nitrate seem to be remaining constant.

Anyone got any ideas?

 

[waterdrop]

Yes, that doesn't particularly surprise me. You are not starting from raw new media like many of our beginners. Instead you had an established filter and rinsed the media in tap water, cleaning it thoroughly and probably reducing the sizes of the established two colonies by some sort of random differing amount.

What this means is that the balance between the numbers of cells of the two species of bacteria will be out of whack with what we are used to seeing. In your case it could be that the N-Bacs are springing back a little better than the A-Bacs in the early going, just reducing the nitrite gap that is between them (rising nitrites, if you think about it, just indicates that the A-Bacs are producing more nitrite than the N-Bacs can handle at the moment so if the N-Bacs actually begin to handle it better than the A-Bacs can dish out, the nitrites will diminish.)

Its too early in the data to tell how far you managed to set back the cycling, but eventually it should become clear based on a long stack of days of data.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JMcQueen]

Yes, I was thinking along the same lines. My only concern is that I'll see a percentage of the N-bacs die off if the A-Bacs cant produce nitrite from the ammonia in sufficient quantities to keep the population going. Having said that, I suppose it should balance itself out over the long run.

 

[waterdrop]

Small die-backs are not really a problem. Just getting colonies up to some size so they can really get going is more of a problem and you may have already achieved some of that. Even when colonies die back a little they are still moving forward in time and those that live are exuding more and more biofilm, which prepares the colony for a faster burst of division in the future. Bacterial division is not linear, you have to have a quorum before division takes off with a frenzy.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[JMcQueen]

Just wondering, is there any way to improve the development of the ammonia bacteria such as the use of tetra safe start? Having not seen a change in the ammonia level for nearly two weeks now Im starting to get concerned that I just have a tank of effectively bacterialogically sterile water.

 

[OldMan47]

One of the biggest things you can do for getting the ammonia processors going is to make sure you have an adequate pH. A value much less than neutral will completely stall a cycle while a pH anywhere in the 7s or even into the lower 8s seems to work well.

 

[JMcQueen]

Yeah, I think I'll order a PH kit tomorrow. I know the water around here is very hard but not so sure on the exact PH.