PH level concern for peppered cory???

[kurtmussel]

Okay so to start off I have a 29 gallon tank with 9 pristella tetra, and a nerite snail. My ammonia and nitrites are both 0, my nitrates are 20 ppm and my ph is 7.6. I have a bubbler and my water temp is 75F. I have some real plants including pothos I just added to my tank a month ago. I do believe my ph to be a bit higher because I use well water in my tanks.

About a week ago I bought 8 peppered cory at my LFS. Since, 5 corys have died. I noticed them all floating up at the top. One looked to possibly have popeye. After researching online it seemed like it could have been a bacterial thing the corys had before I purchased them. I have read that if my ph is stable then 7.6 is okay for cory. Now, I am second guessing and I am unsure what to do.

I went back to my LFS today and they told me my corys died because my ph is too high and it needs to be lowered. I believe my LFS said their ph was 7.0. That being said, does that sound right? Other than getting jostled around during transport, could my ph really be the only reason they died?

Moving forward I am curious what should I do to fix this problem so I can have a healthy tank where I can introduce new corys and everything will be okay? My LFS said I need to immediately start lowering my ph. Would this be correct? Can anyone attest to this or give me good advice on how to move forward doing so. What they told me to start doing is to buy their treated water and use that for my weekly water changes. They suggested doing 5 gallons at a time and to also use seachem neutral regulator to aid in lowering my ph.

Would this be a good start to slowly lowering my ph, or would anyone suggest an alternative. Please I desperately need help as I am not sure what else would be wrong.

 

[Essjay31 146]

Do not mess with pH. GH, KH and pH are all interlinked and trying to alter one without the others is not easy. If your KH is high, if you add a chemical to alter pH, it will likely drop then rebound back to the original level. Swinging pH is worse for fish than stable pH even if that is slightly outside the quoted range for a species.
Your pH is OK for the cories. Hardness is more important than pH, sterbai's recommended range is between 1 and 15 dH (18 and 270 ppm).

I suspect the person at the LFS doesn't understand about pH and has chosen 7.0 as being neither acidic nor basic. It is more likely that the issue with the cories is an infection of some sort which they already had when you bought them.

 

[TwoTankAmin26]

Find another place to by your fish. PlanetCatfish, one of the best catfish resources there is says the pH for Hoplisoma paleatum (formerly paleatus) is 6.0 - 7.5. 0.1 above that 7.5 is not something fatal. Bear in mind that pH range is for the wild fish. Domestically bred are often more forgiving.

Seriously Fish, a respected site, puts the pH range at 6.0 - 7.0. But between those two sites I trust PC on catfish over Seriously Fish.

However. The Wet Spot a well respected seller of fish sells paleatum. They list similar paremeters for the fish as those from Seriously fish. But, if you look deeper into the information Wet Spot offer your will find this:

Our general water parameters are as follows:
pH – 7.5 – 7.8
Water Temperature – about 72°F (room heated at 82°F)
dGH – 32ppm (1.79°)
kH – 107ppm (5.98°)
We keep our Lake Malawi and Lake Tanganyika Cichlids at a pH of 8.4.

If you do a Google search for the platum, the AI tells you thos which they attribute to PlanetCatfish:

Hoplisoma paleatum (formerly Corydoras paleatus), commonly known as the peppered corydoras, thrives best in a pH range of 6.0 to 7.5. They prefer slightly acidic to neutral water conditions, though they can tolerate a broader range between 6.0 and 8.0 in well-managed freshwater setups.

So, according to the store you got yours at, Wet Spot must be selling them dead. I highly doubt that. And they are also telling you Planet Catfish is wrong as well. I have been a member at Planet Catfish since April 2008. I have met Jools and Shane Linder from there and I know Ian Fuller is a member as well and he has been considered one of the world's experts on corys. There is no way he would allow the site to have wrong parameter information for any cory species without challenging it..

I would bet dollars to donuts that your are absolutely correct that the corys were not healthy when you got them.

One more observation here, while pH can matter under certain circumstances, Hardness (GH) is far more important. I am also one who never acclimates new fish, I immediately put them into one of my tanks as soon as they arrive at my home. Usually this a a Q tank. However, I almost have never bought any fish at brick and mortar stores except for the first fish that went into my very first tank in Jan. 2001. Of my only two cases of Ich over almost 26 years, one came from a store and the other from an AquaBid seller.

 

[kurtmussel]

Do not mess with pH. GH, KH and pH are all interlinked and trying to alter one without the others is not easy. If your KH is high, if you add a chemical to alter pH, it will likely drop then rebound back to the original level. Swinging pH is worse for fish than stable pH even if that is slightly outside the quoted range for a species.
Your pH is OK for the cories. Hardness is more important than pH, sterbai's recommended range is between 1 and 15 dH (18 and 270 ppm).

I suspect the person at the LFS doesn't understand about pH and has chosen 7.0 as being neither acidic nor basic. It is more likely that the issue with the cories is an infection of some sort which they already had when you bought them.

Okay sorry for being dense but how do you determine GH and KH?

When I first was starting in this hobby I thought I needed to lower my pH a bit, so I have only ever added almond leaves but never truly tried decreasing it with anything else. When it was suggested to use the seachem neutral regulator it made me nervous. I really don't want to drastically change my cycle, or drop the pH too fast that it would mess with my pristellas.

I will say this was a youngish person and I did not entirely get the idea that he understood. He said my pH was too acidic...... I do kind of feel like he was trying to steer me away from claiming them to be infected when I already bought them so that they wouldn't be responsible for replacing them. I was duped into buying the neutral regulator and water with a 20% discount

 

[GaryE29]

Your pet shop is shifting the blame for having sold you diseased fish. Hoplisoma paleatus can spawn at pH 7.6.

 

[kurtmussel]

Find another place to by your fish. PlanetCatfish, one of the best catfish resources there is says the pH for Hoplisoma paleatum (formerly paleatus) is 6.0 - 7.5. 0.1 above that 7.5 is not something fatal. Bear in mind that pH range is for the wild fish. Domestically bred are often more forgiving.

Seriously Fish, a respected site, puts the pH range at 6.0 - 7.0. But between those two sites I trust PC on catfish over Seriously Fish.

However. The Wet Spot a well respected seller of fish sells paleatum. They list similar paremeters for the fish as those from Seriously fish. But, if you look deeper into the information Wet Spot offer your will find this:


If you do a Google search for the platum, the AI tells you thos which they attribute to PlanetCatfish:


So, according to the store you got yours at, Wet Spot must be selling them dead. I highly doubt that. And they are also telling you Planet Catfish is wrong as well. I have been a member at Planet Catfish since April 2008. I have met Jools and Shane Linder from there and I know Ian Fuller is a member as well and he has been considered one of the world's experts on corys. There is no way he would allow the site to have wrong parameter information for any cory species without challenging it..

I would bet dollars to donuts that your are absolutely correct that the corys were not healthy when you got them.

One more observation here, while pH can matter under certain circumstances, Hardness (GH) is far more important. I am also one who never acclimates new fish, I immediately put them into one of my tanks as soon as they arrive at my home. Usually this a a Q tank. However, I almost have never bought any fish at brick and mortar stores except for the first fish that went into my very first tank in Jan. 2001. Of my only two cases of Ich over almost 26 years, one came from a store and the other from an AquaBid seller.

Thank you for this information. I will say when I was researching I really did find that while maybe my pH is on the higher side, that it still seemed to be in an okay range for the cory. Even so, I did see that the paleatus are hardier so I would expect my pH not to be the biggest contributing factor like the guy at the LFS suggested.

When I was talking to the guy working there I did suggest that maybe that batch of fish they got in was not exactly healthy when they got that shipment in. He could have been just trying to lay the blame elsewhere so they wouldn't have to refund me or comp me for new fish. Which is wild because I have been told by this kid before to bring in the dead fish and bring in some water for them to test and they will make it right. Now, when I did exactly what he said it seemed like he was trying to really reach for a different reason.

Also, whenever I buy new fish all I do is float them in my tank until they are adjusted to the temp, and then I add them in. I guess maybe I don't acclimate them much either?

Moving forward would you recommend buying from Wet Spot, or can you recommend any other place online? It is a shame because I did truly like this LFS, the owner is very nice.. I feel like he just hires kids to be there to run the shop and they might not have enough knowledge. I have tried another LFS a bit farther away from my house and the people there were a bit rude. I have always been nervous to buy fish from online. I don't know anyone who has personally. I do think I need to start considering it though.

 

[kurtmussel]

Your pet shop is shifting the blame for having sold you diseased fish. Hoplisoma paleatus can spawn at pH 7.6.

This is really what I thought. I feel like I was duped into buying stuff I truly do not need now. I just trusted their opinion blindly EVEN THOUGH I have read online that 7.6 pH was okay.

 

[GaryE29]

If a person in the store is feeling unethical, in any field that calls for expertise, we tend to believe them. It's a shame when it happens, but it happens a lot.

Cory group fish often die from shipping damage. They're sensitive to crowding in bags, which is how they get moved. It's really unfortunate. Stores can't always see it coming, but good stores hold them back from sales for a period to make sure they're good.

 

[Essjay31 146]

I will say this was a youngish person and I did not entirely get the idea that he understood. He said my pH was too acidic......

Definitely don't trust that sales person. pH 7.6 is basic not acidic.........

 

[anewbie1]

Your pet shop is shifting the blame for having sold you diseased fish. Hoplisoma paleatus can spawn at pH 7.6.

Depends on the water hardness. Again ph is an indicator of hardness but NOT defacto. You can have ph 7.6 with kh 6 and with kh 15; though one would expect higher ph with kh 15.
-
wetspot has been reliable for myself BUT i would first determine your kh and gh - you can buy a test kit or find a store willing to test for you. You can get a rough idea of kh and gh from your water company and you can also ask them if they use a single water source or if it change during the year.

the value of kh and gh are express in different units - there is degree which is typically between 1 and 20 for tap water with a normal value between 2 and 10. There is ppm which is usually between 16 and 200.

If you know other fish keepers in your area you could ask if they know.

I do think it is important to check if you water is consitent year round - there are many areas esp near mountains where the water might be 30 tds in the spring (snow melt) and 250 during winter - 30 is extremely soft and 250 rather hard. I used a different unit here that did not break out gh and kh.
--
The only problem with wetspot is they are not cheap esp when you consider shipping. Also you would want to iron things out on your end before you start paying to have the fishes shipped.
--
Most commonly sold species of catfish are fairly robust but chain stores can have issues esp due to inbreeding and other aggressive means of breeding fishes for mass sale. Without knowing more about your store it is hard to guess on the quality of the live stock they sell. One indicator is if they quarantine fishes for a week or two or three before selling. If they are the type of store that receive fishes in the morning and sell them in the afternoon then they are probably best avoided unless they have a particular fish for a while before selling.

 

[kurtmussel]

If a person in the store is feeling unethical, in any field that calls for expertise, we tend to believe them. It's a shame when it happens, but it happens a lot.

Cory group fish often die from shipping damage. They're sensitive to crowding in bags, which is how they get moved. It's really unfortunate. Stores can't always see it coming, but good stores hold them back from sales for a period to make sure they're good.

I will say I do not feel like there is any waiting period with them. They just receive a new batch from the city every Wednesday and sell until they are out of stock..

 

[kurtmussel]

Definitely don't trust that sales person. pH 7.6 is basic not acidic.........

I clearly was not thinking in the moment when he said it. The heat here in the south had me flustered.

 

[GaryE29]

@kurtmussel relax. We all make these mistakes, especially when we've recently lost fish. Maybe the kid was poorly trained, told to say that - if he was - it's worked before.

 

[kurtmussel]

Depends on the water hardness. Again ph is an indicator of hardness but NOT defacto. You can have ph 7.6 with kh 6 and with kh 15; though one would expect higher ph with kh 15.
-
wetspot has been reliable for myself BUT i would first determine your kh and gh - you can buy a test kit or find a store willing to test for you. You can get a rough idea of kh and gh from your water company and you can also ask them if they use a single water source or if it change during the year.

the value of kh and gh are express in different units - there is degree which is typically between 1 and 20 for tap water with a normal value between 2 and 10. There is ppm which is usually between 16 and 200.

If you know other fish keepers in your area you could ask if they know.

I do think it is important to check if you water is consitent year round - there are many areas esp near mountains where the water might be 30 tds in the spring (snow melt) and 250 during winter - 30 is extremely soft and 250 rather hard. I used a different unit here that did not break out gh and kh.
--
The only problem with wetspot is they are not cheap esp when you consider shipping. Also you would want to iron things out on your end before you start paying to have the fishes shipped.
--
Most commonly sold species of catfish are fairly robust but chain stores can have issues esp due to inbreeding and other aggressive means of breeding fishes for mass sale. Without knowing more about your store it is hard to guess on the quality of the live stock they sell. One indicator is if they quarantine fishes for a week or two or three before selling. If they are the type of store that receive fishes in the morning and sell them in the afternoon then they are probably best avoided unless they have a particular fish for a while before selling.

Okay thank you, I will have to buy a test kit for it then. I did happen to google a guesstimated answer.. not entirely sure the accuracy just yet. However it said the GH would be 2 for my area. That seems a bit low. How would I bump that up, through adding calcium and magnesium?

Unfortunately I do not really know any fish keepers in my area. I did just recently work with someone who had two large goldfish. Whenever I used to ask her specific questions about maintaining my tank, she couldn't really answer me though. I suspect her husband upkept their water parameters.

Also, I will say that I do not think they are quarantining these fish. The owner told me that they get new fish in every Wednesday. From what I gather, they get a new shipment in, put them right in their tanks to be sold as fast as possible. Unfortunately I cannot recall which place they buy from. I just recall it is some large aquatic business in CLT.

 

[anewbie1]

Okay thank you, I will have to buy a test kit for it then. I did happen to google a guesstimated answer.. not entirely sure the accuracy just yet. However it said the GH would be 2 for my area. That seems a bit low. How would I bump that up, through adding calcium and magnesium?

Unfortunately I do not really know any fish keepers in my area. I did just recently work with someone who had two large goldfish. Whenever I used to ask her specific questions about maintaining my tank, she couldn't really answer me though. I suspect her husband upkept their water parameters.

Also, I will say that I do not think they are quarantining these fish. The owner told me that they get new fish in every Wednesday. From what I gather, they get a new shipment in, put them right in their tanks to be sold as fast as possible. Unfortunately I cannot recall which place they buy from. I just recall it is some large aquatic business in CLT.

if gh and kh are around 2 (tds would be around 90 ppm) which is quite good for most south american catfish so you would not want to bump it up. Now if that is the accurate value then for guppies and other commonly available live-bearers like swordtails and mollies you would need to bump it up. You really want both kh and gh.

In any event do not bump up the water for most fishes that are native to south america (there are a few species that come from harder water but they are less common).