I’m About To Scream!

[FishGuest5123]

I’m use to giving the advice but I am puzzled here. Had Ich in my tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Cleared up with heat and salt. Now I have It again. Mild case, one spot on about 4 or 5 fish. Started treating with heat again at 86F/30C a few days ago. Vacuuming bottom daily along with 1/3 water change. No salt this time because I have panda, bronze, and albino cories now. This time, Ich is not going away. Well, it falls off some fish but then I find a spot on another. I’m ready to throw in the towel in this tank. My parameters are 0,0, .10. PH 7.5, GH 10, KH 6. What else can I do? @Colin_T , @Byron?

 

[Colin_T]

The white spot might be developing a resistance to the heat or your thermometer is not reading correctly. You could try raising the water temp to 32C (90F) and see if that does the job. If it doesn't, then use copper.

*NB* 32C is the maximum limit for most tropical fish so monitor them closely when you raise the temperature to that. And make sure there is heaps of aeration to maximise the oxygen levels.

If you go for copper, remove any shrimp from the tank and do 4 or 5 big water changes and complete gravel cleans on the tank before putting shrimp back in. Then only add 1 or 2 shrimp and see if they are ok, before adding the rest of them.

Follow the dose rate for scaleless fishes if you have catfish in the tank.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

I might add, that it would take a lot of work to remove all of your shrimp out of your tank, if you wanted to dose copper. Even if you thought you had all of them out, a lot of babies might die. Also, copper kills snails to. So, if you have any snails in that tank, that's something to consider as well.

 

[Byron]

You asked for my input, so I will give it, even though it counters some of what has been suggested.

I would never use copper in a fish tank, at least not for ich or similar. Salt is considerably safer for fish like cories, loaches and characins.

As for treatment, I myself would likely sit this out. But you are there to observe the fish and are the better judge. Are they flashing? I have known a "spot" appear on a fish and then disappear with no obvious follow-up. Jumping into treatments is not usually the wisest decision. Clean water and avoiding stress can work wonders.

I know some do not agree, but it is now held that ich can live in an aquarium for some time without any spots ever appearing. A flash once in a while is generally the only indication, because ich first attacks fish in the gills, and just one parasite getting through the treatment is all it takes. If the fish encounter some stressful situation which weakens their immune system, this can cause the infestation to take off. In nature they develop what some may term an immunity, but it is certainly a resistance. No one dumps copper or salt in the natural water, but fish are still there so the ich obviously does not decimate them. Nature can best deal with nature if we provide an environment suited and free of stress.

 

[Retired Viking]

I agree with @Byron once you use copper it stays around and affects that tank for a long time. Good luck.

 

[FishGuest5123]

You asked for my input, so I will give it, even though it counters some of what has been suggested.

I would never use copper in a fish tank, at least not for ich or similar. Salt is considerably safer for fish like cories, loaches and characins.

As for treatment, I myself would likely sit this out. But you are there to observe the fish and are the better judge. Are they flashing? I have known a "spot" appear on a fish and then disappear with no obvious follow-up. Jumping into treatments is not usually the wisest decision. Clean water and avoiding stress can work wonders.

I know some do not agree, but it is now held that ich can live in an aquarium for some time without any spots ever appearing. A flash once in a while is generally the only indication, because ich first attacks fish in the gills, and just one parasite getting through the treatment is all it takes. If the fish encounter some stressful situation which weakens their immune system, this can cause the infestation to take off. In nature they develop what some may term an immunity, but it is certainly a resistance. No one dumps copper or salt in the natural water, but fish are still there so the ich obviously does not decimate them. Nature can best deal with nature if we provide an environment suited and free of stress.

I’m afraid of copper though I’ve never used it. I’ll stick to the heat treatment and see what happens. I did add 2 teaspoons of aquarium salt today which probably is of no benefit.

 

[Colin_T]

The 2 main chemicals used to treat external protozoan infections are Copper Sulfate and Malachite Green. Malachite Green causes cancer and is poisonous to shrimp and snails. Copper does not cause cancer but does kill invertebrates like shrimp and snails.
Out of the two, Copper is much safer to use and will kill the parasites.

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The other way to treat white spot is to move the fish into a clean container every day for a week or two. The parasites drop off the fish and sit on the bottom of the container. You move the fish into a clean container each day and some of the parasites are left behind. Eventually there are no parasites left on the fish and they are free of the disease.

You need to wash the containers out each day to remove any white spot parasites in them. Each container is then set up with clean dechlorinated water and the fish are put in it for 24 hours before being moved into a different container.

 

[FishGuest5123]

The 2 main chemicals used to treat external protozoan infections are Copper Sulfate and Malachite Green. Malachite Green causes cancer and is poisonous to shrimp and snails. Copper does not cause cancer but does kill invertebrates like shrimp and snails.
Out of the two, Copper is much safer to use and will kill the parasites.

-----------
The other way to treat white spot is to move the fish into a clean container every day for a week or two. The parasites drop off the fish and sit on the bottom of the container. You move the fish into a clean container each day and some of the parasites are left behind. Eventually there are no parasites left on the fish and they are free of the disease.

You need to wash the containers out each day to remove any white spot parasites in them. Each container is then set up with clean dechlorinated water and the fish are put in it for 24 hours before being moved into a different container.

That would be a lot of work with about 40 fish in tank but s interesting.

 

[Byron]

That would be a lot of work with about 40 fish in tank but s interesting.

I understand the logic behind this, but I would never do it. Imagine the stress of each move...that is only going to increase the chance of ich getting through the fish's defenses, which you want to be strengthening (by avoiding stress).

 

[Colin_T]

Take your pick, the white spot is not going away by itself. It survived 30C so you have the following choices.

32C and hope the fish tolerate the heat.
Chemicals like copper or malachite green.
Moving the fish each day, which if done with a large fine mesh net is quick and not that stressful.

 

[FishGuest5123]

You forgot using aquarium salt. I started half dosing with it today and it already seems to be improving. Those little parasites hate salt! I also read that ich parasites are almost blind and new studies show success with lights out. They can’t locate the host as well. If all else fails then I will try the copper. I do appreciate the help.

 

[Byron]

You forgot using aquarium salt. I started half dosing with it today and it already seems to be improving. Those little parasites hate salt! I also read that ich parasites are almost blind and new studies show success with lights out. They can’t locate the host as well. If all else fails then I will try the copper. I do appreciate the help.

If you have cories, no copper. Salt is much safer, but what amount are you using? I used 2 g of aquarium salt per liter; 1 level teaspoon is roughly 6 grams, so that treats 3 liters of tank water. These numbers (and advice) is from Neale Monks, and I had no issues from my cories or loaches or wild caught characins, all of which are extremely copper-sensitive.

 

[FishGuest5123]

If you have cories, no copper. Salt is much safer, but what amount are you using? I used 2 g of aquarium salt per liter; 1 level teaspoon is roughly 6 grams, so that treats 3 liters of tank water. These numbers (and advice) is from Neale Monks, and I had no issues from my cories or loaches or wild caught characins, all of which are extremely copper-sensitive.

Thanks for the warning on the copper! I read to dose aquarium salt at 1/2 the normal amount for cories so I did 1/2 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water. They seem OK. Is that safe?

 

[Sarah73]

I’m use to giving the advice but I am puzzled here. Had Ich in my tank about 2-3 weeks ago. Cleared up with heat and salt. Now I have It again. Mild case, one spot on about 4 or 5 fish. Started treating with heat again at 86F/30C a few days ago. Vacuuming bottom daily along with 1/3 water change. No salt this time because I have panda, bronze, and albino cories now. This time, Ich is not going away. Well, it falls off some fish but then I find a spot on another. I’m ready to throw in the towel in this tank. My parameters are 0,0, .10. PH 7.5, GH 10, KH 6. What else can I do? @Colin_T , @Byron?

Well, corydoras are catfish which are scaleless, which means they are very sensitive to copper. Honestly, if there is still ich because ich can survive even with the harshest chemicals, I would completely empty all of the water out of the tank, remove the gravel, get new gravel, and replace everything but the filter pads. Ich likes to hide in the gravel especially.

 

[Byron]

Thanks for the warning on the copper! I read to dose aquarium salt at 1/2 the normal amount for cories so I did 1/2 tablespoon per 5 gallons of water. They seem OK. Is that safe?

The safe level for treatment (only) is 2 g of salt per liter, and 1 level tsp is 6 g for 3 liters, and 3 liters is roughly 1.5 US gallons. For 5 gallons of tank water, it would be 6 level tsp. This is going to be about four times more than you used. But check my conversion math, this is not a strong point for me.