I'm A Copycat !

[ChilliPepper]

See, IMO keeping just one discus DOES NOT sound good.
A discus needs companions. they love to socialize with eachother they like to swim as a group.

Where are you getting the information?

i researched discus since last november,and i still need more to know, like some genetics,breeding,etc. i might hold off on my first discus coming in august.

Have you not got a Discus yet then?

 

[Balloons&killies]

getting them in like 2-3 weeks

Ive learned alot from simply though.

 

[ajs2294]

Long-term keeping 1 discus isn't the best option. Keeping one as a trail fish is completely understandable with the cost. But eventually you'll need more. Think of it in these terms you are a human, humans are closely related to apes, but would you be happy to be kept alone with a bunch of apes? Now genetically it might not be a perfect example but its in theory good. Humans can interact with apes but for total fulfillment most humans must be around and interact with other humans Same with discus and other fish they are closely related but no substitute for another discus

 

[hamfist]

Think of it in these terms you are a human, humans are closely related to apes, but would you be happy to be kept alone with a bunch of apes? Now genetically it might not be a perfect example but its in theory good. Humans can interact with apes but for total fulfillment most humans must be around and interact with other humans Same with discus and other fish they are closely related but no substitute for another discus

Sorry, that is a poor analogy. The difference between humans and apes is a massive leap in intelligence, rather than ways in which socialisation takes place. Uaru and discus are right on a level, intelligence-wise, as well as socialising in very similar manner.

There is a lot of "internet" wisdom about uaru as well, that they MUST be kept in groups. However, if you dig a bit deeper then it appears that as the fish mature they become much happier with their own company, and that adult uaru kept as singletons pretty much always are very happy and settled.

There was a relatively recent thread on "Simply" about this very thing with discus and a number of people expressed an opinion, based on experience, that once discus get bigger than the juvie stage then they CAN be kept as singletons well, and be happy with it too. There was actually very little argument with that analysis either on that forum.

So people can repeat what they have heard others say all they want. However, if anyone has actually kept a single discus before, then I take a lot of weight in what that person has to say. Experience speaks !

Of all the actual experiences of people who have actually kept a single discus in a community-type situation that I have read. Only one of these had a negative outcome, and ended up putting the fish with more discus, where it became much happier. All the others (remember this is other people's actual experience) had great success, and their discus were happy, healthy, feeding and settled.
I will continue to search for these stories, as I'm sure I haven't found them all yet.

Now my experiment might fail, but if it does, it would appear to be counter to what I'm actually reading from people who have done similar to me.

 

[ChilliPepper]

I don't see any harm in trying a single Discus in your tank. You have obviously researched a lot, and you say he is eating and swimming about now, so it would seem he is happy.

A lot of people talk the talk when it comes to animals in general, but personal experience is always going to be more valued. Also accounting for the fact that Discus are cichlids, so there are no rules or guarantees.

 

[snowflake311]

Sorry discus people but I agree with that.

Not just the uaru are found in groups but festivum and angles. People keep than alone all the time, and they do fine. I think with discus they are so much money that people want the best for them and do not want to take any chance. Also these tank bred strains are so far removed from the wilds that I don't think that need to "school" is as strong. Now a wild discus that might be a fish that will not do well alone.

 

[markandhisfish]

ive been following these single discus threads with interest and have been trying to resist commenting , i have my own views on wether discus should be kept singly and personally i dont believe they should be. its just the same as say a single cardinal / neon/ rummynose etc time and time again people say things like what can i add to my 2 neons etc and are told up the numbers of the neons 1st . yes as with the discus these are mmainly tank-bred these days but the shoaling instinct still remains. so it stands to reason its no different with discus.

it is very trye that discus are a fish that are surrounded by many myths and made out to be much more expert fish than is really the case, and that people perpetuate these myths time and time again when giving advice to new keepers in order to try and make themselves sound more knowledgable thany they really are ,which only serves to daunt and confuse even more.

but the fact remains that discus are very inteligent social fish that have an instinctive need to interact with their own kind and form social groups

as for temerature range. anywhere from 28 to 30 degrees C is ideal , altho be sure to have plenty of surface agitation , as at higher temps water is less aable to hold dissolved oxygen .

another problem i can see in the future is when you start adding more discus to the existing fish. you will be adding newbies to established fish and theres a high chance that the new fish will get bullied by the existing ( and s in its mind , dominant) fish . often these new fish if they get bullied too much will become stressed,stop feeding and ultimately die.
its generally best to add all your discus at once and let a heirachy form within the group.

 

[ajs2294]

Well actually Social structure is related to intelligence and apes aren't on much lower intelligence of humans, rather we have a more refined intelligence over evolutionary time. But I'll set that aside. Obviously you are going to raise your fish how ever you want. I just know that I have a group of discus and have observed many interactions between the fish almost constantly, so they have a very strong social structure. And in a tank with 1 fish this wouldn't happen. As Mark also said it is instinctual and if you are experienced in psychology you would know instinct is very hard almost impossible to overcome. Just one last quick thing to I have actually had experience keep discus in tanks by them for short term reasons and every time they were not the same fish until added to the group.
But at the end of the day there is no RIGHT or WRONG. With out people changing the rules and breaking them we wouldn't know what we know today about fish in general or discus. So best of luck in your tank.

 

[kaivalagi]

Interesting discussion.

The same argument should be had with quite a few other cichlids too with regards to social structure and being in groups right? But we don't find so much of a case in place as the fish are cheaper and not mystified by keepers...I am thinking of various species of Geo, Angel etc

In a tank (i.e. with boundaries in place) most cichlids have to have some form of social structure, whether with the same or differing species...(in the wild things would be quite different with all that territory available)...surely the same could be said with a single Discus in a tank with other cichlids of varying species, you would hope it would adapt like other species to it's environment...

I personally doubt that Discus have any more a complicated social structure than other cichlids, but having not keep them my angle on things is something limited to generalisation

. I would imagine that discus have decided to stick together more tightly because of having safety in numbers (could say instinct I guess, definitely evolutionary) and have had to adapt to this social order within limited space. After all they can't defend themselves all that well unlike most other cichlids can they...

It will certainly be interesting to see how single discus get on in a multi species tank, I would expect it to be no different than the hundreds of tanks which house a single geo or angel with other fish though...we shall see

edit: quick question: in the wild do discus breeding pairs leave the group to spawn and raise young or do they stay within the group the whole time, risking egg/fry being eaten by others? I would hazard a guess that if they go it alone in this situation, in which case having a single discus in a tank would possibly work out fine too...just a thought

 

[snowflake311]

This is great so many differant views I'm loving this. Everyone has great points are you all on the debate team.

Yes a breeding pair will leave the group during the flood season tho spawn. So many breeders do keep proven pairs alone togeher.

The main thing that was said that is for sure very true.

"And in a tank with 1 fish this wouldn't happen. As Mark also said it is instinctual and if you are experienced in psychology you would know instinct is very hard almost impossible to overcome. Just one last quick thing to I have actually had experience keep discus in tanks by them for short term reasons and every time they were not the same fish until added to the group.But at the end of the day there is no RIGHT or WRONG. With out people changing the rules and breaking them we wouldn't know what we know today about fish in general or discus. So best of luck in your"



"it is very trye that discus are a fish that are surrounded by many myths and made out to be much more expert fish than is really the case, and that people perpetuate these myths time and time again when giving advice to new keepers in order to try and make themselves sound more knowledgable thany they really are ,which only serves to daunt and confuse even more. "

Well put you guy. Myself I'm going on a little road trip this week and will be on the look out for some discus. I really want some green Tête.

 

[hamfist]

Cool discussion! Most cerebral one on the www that I've read on this matter !

@ ajs2294 "actually" Lol!!! touche !

 

[Balloons&killies]

ive been following these single discus threads with interest and have been trying to resist commenting , i have my own views on wether discus should be kept singly and personally i dont believe they should be. its just the same as say a single cardinal / neon/ rummynose etc time and time again people say things like what can i add to my 2 neons etc and are told up the numbers of the neons 1st . yes as with the discus these are mmainly tank-bred these days but the shoaling instinct still remains. so it stands to reason its no different with discus.

it is very trye that discus are a fish that are surrounded by many myths and made out to be much more expert fish than is really the case, and that people perpetuate these myths time and time again when giving advice to new keepers in order to try and make themselves sound more knowledgable thany they really are ,which only serves to daunt and confuse even more.

but the fact remains that discus are very inteligent social fish that have an instinctive need to interact with their own kind and form social groups

as for temerature range. anywhere from 28 to 30 degrees C is ideal , altho be sure to have plenty of surface agitation , as at higher temps water is less aable to hold dissolved oxygen .

another problem i can see in the future is when you start adding more discus to the existing fish. you will be adding newbies to established fish and theres a high chance that the new fish will get bullied by the existing ( and s in its mind , dominant) fish . often these new fish if they get bullied too much will become stressed,stop feeding and ultimately die.
its generally best to add all your discus at once and let a heirachy form within the group.

Deffo agree with mark
and i think discus look even nicer in groups

 

[hamfist]

Just to update, Eric has been rather nervous and has hidden most of today (yeah, yeah, some of you gloating at this point !). The W/C I did yesterday certainly shook him up quite a bit, as he was being very outgoing until then. Maybe he's deciding he's doesn't like his new home. I shall see how it all goes. Will not keep him if I can't give him a home he is happy and settled in. A key thing will be to see how he responds to frozen bloodworm this evening.

Everyone send up a little prayer for Eric please.

 

[rdp50734]

fingers crossed!

 

[ChilliPepper]

Aww - hope Eric has some bloodworm this evening