I'm A Copycat !

[DiscusKeeper403]

See, IMO keeping just one discus DOES NOT sound good.

DITO. VERY important to keep them in groups. They shoal in the hundreds in the wild.. It would be like keeping Tetras singly, just isn't nice..

You say you researched.. Where? Obviously not the right places because anyone who says to keep them singly doesn't know what they are talking about.ditto

Keeping a single Discus would be like keeping an Oscar in a 20 gallon, just isn't ideal and IMHO a little cruel

Been waiting for you to comment connor. Oh and connor you didnt P.M. me back on simply

Sorry I haven't replied yet, been extremely busy and unsure as to which fish I am going to part with I like all my fish so it's such a hard decision, but I will let you know asap.

 

[hamfist]

You say you researched.. Where? Obviously not the right places because anyone who says to keep them singly doesn't know what they are talking about.

Keeping a single Discus would be like keeping an Oscar in a 20 gallon, just isn't ideal and IMHO a little cruel

If you'd read the whole thread you would have found that even though the generalised wisdom that is always quoted is to keep them in a shoal. A number of people have very successfully gone out on their own and tried to keep a single discus in a community situation and had happy and healthy fish.
I, myself, have been keeping and breeding fish for over 30 years and I am very aware that many fish just do not stick to the "rules" and often one can keep fish happily in situations where the "common wisdom" dictates that it cannot be done.
The main forum I researched in is "Simply", which I was under the impression is pretty well thought of.
One has to dig deep to find single discus keeper stories from people who have actually done it. In contrast, it's very easy to find people with strong opinions who have never actually kept a single discus.

I accept that you may well be very experienced in keeping, and breeding, discus, and have a lot of great knowledge in that area. However, it is a bit condescending, to be honest, to just weigh in at the end of a lengthy thread (which you have clearly not read all of) with your "pronouncement of truth".

 

[markandhisfish]

and people say discus are boring well few fish divide opinion so strongly thats for sure

 

[walkers101]

How are discus boring? ive just been stroking mine lol

 

[ChilliPepper]

and people say discus are boring well few fish divide opinion so strongly thats for sure

 

[Glenbo1981]

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[hamfist]

I would watch The Chocolate Cichlid with the Discus, they are pretty much a Oscar in a different uniform.

I have read of some very, very mellow chocolates, and also some real terrors too !
Mine seems pretty gentle so far, although is much smaller than all the other cichlids at the moment.

Anyway, there is a huge update on Eric ...... after hiding behind a huge lump of wood for a day and a half he has suddenly decided that life is good again. He is out and about, shoaling merrily with the uarus, and has been for the last two hours. He is not nervous of me at all. Hopefully, this is a sign of things to come, and that I just needed to have patience to let him settle in.
A suspect a touch of bipolar disorder possibly !

Anyway, here he is, Eric (the honorary uaru) with Johnson and Jemima ......

 

[karin]

Interesting thread. One thing that sticks out for me is the concept of fish happiness. Can we ever really know if our fish are happy? Or is this just our projection, our hope? Is a fish happy when it is calm or when it is tearing apart another fish? Is happiness when they are doing what they do in the wild? Or is the wild a dangerous, unhealthy, place? Maybe they are happy in tanks because they are not in the wild? Can we know? I think we have to remember that an aquarium is a totally artificial environment for most fish. Most of us fiddle with the water stats until they are near perfect, most of us keep sick fish alive, most of us feed totally regularly. Is being healthy happy? Can we know on the fishes behalf? All I can really say is that my tank would make me happier than the tanks in the LFS. That is all I really know.

 

[ajs2294]

Interesting thread. One thing that sticks out for me is the concept of fish happiness. Can we ever really know if our fish are happy? Or is this just our projection, our hope? Is a fish happy when it is calm or when it is tearing apart another fish? Is happiness when they are doing what they do in the wild? Or is the wild a dangerous, unhealthy, place? Maybe they are happy in tanks because they are not in the wild? Can we know? I think we have to remember that an aquarium is a totally artificial environment for most fish. Most of us fiddle with the water stats until they are near perfect, most of us keep sick fish alive, most of us feed totally regularly. Is being healthy happy? Can we know on the fishes behalf? All I can really say is that my tank would make me happier than the tanks in the LFS. That is all I really know.

You can observe coloring, shyness and eating habits quite easily to determine on discus. Along with the easiest stress bars to tell the stress level of the fish if you have experience. But you can't be 100% sure until you add a discus to a group observe it and then compare it to being alone.

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

Interesting thread. One thing that sticks out for me is the concept of fish happiness. Can we ever really know if our fish are happy? Or is this just our projection, our hope? Is a fish happy when it is calm or when it is tearing apart another fish? Is happiness when they are doing what they do in the wild? Or is the wild a dangerous, unhealthy, place? Maybe they are happy in tanks because they are not in the wild? Can we know? I think we have to remember that an aquarium is a totally artificial environment for most fish. Most of us fiddle with the water stats until they are near perfect, most of us keep sick fish alive, most of us feed totally regularly. Is being healthy happy? Can we know on the fishes behalf? All I can really say is that my tank would make me happier than the tanks in the LFS. That is all I really know.

That's a very good point. As ajs2294 stated, color, stress bars, eatings habits ect. are good ways to tell. I think the easiest way to achieve this level of happiness is to reflect on their natural habitat, and try to recreate it. Maybe not all aspects have to be met, but their a few basic ones I would consider pretty important

Hamfist, sorry if I sounded condecescending. I'm only stating my opinions on Discus keeping, and the textbook way to keep them and have success. I still don't agree that the fish should be kept by itself though (or even just with similar species for that matter.)If you don't want to listen to me that's fine, I still wish you goodluck with him. No I hadn't read through the whole thread, but I did skim through it.

 

[kaivalagi]

Glad to see Eric getting some confidence, fingers crossed it stays that way

@DK403, do you think those stress bars Eric is displaying are beyond what would be expected for a newly introduced discus group in the same time span or is it just too early to say?

One way or another this should be a good "test" to know whether a discus could do ok on it's own...I would suspect, after reading through the more expert opinions, that Eric may be an exemption to the general rule if this is the case though. Each potential discus keeper, if going down the singular specimen route, would obviously need to put the same level of case and observation into it as Hamfist to know if it would work out in the long run or not

Out of curiosity does anyone know what sort of size shoals exist for Geo's and Angel fish in the wild? I wonder whether a good parallel could be drawn with those fish compared to discus or not...

Great thread!

 

[meguro]

Many people say you shouldn't keep Discus with Angels because they're not found together in the wild, but is this really true?

Angelfish are frequently mates of Discus in nature. Normally they are in a minority within a large Discus group, but I was recently very surprised to get 400 Green discus and nearly 250 angelfish together in one netting.

Pterophyllum scalare are found normally in smaller groups of five to ten within a large Discus group and are, after Geophagus/Satanoperca/Biotodoma species, the most frequent mates of Discus.

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2572

Heckels are active in daytime in groups of 30-200 or even more
...
They [Symphysodon aequifasciatus] live during the day in groups of 400-800 or more
...
[Symphysodon haraldi] often in groups up to 1,000.

http/www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk/content.php?sid=2724

 

[kaivalagi]

Thanks for that Meguro, very interesting numbers there...

It begs the question why people aren't so opposed to Geo and Angel keepers with one or maybe two of a species???

Also Geo and Angels do see fairly happy without thier own kind in a tank with them...

It does make me ponder a little as to whether Hamfist is on to something here and that the "must be in groups" attitude may just be a little exaggerated...

Says I though, someone who has only keep a single geo red head tapajos before adding another four buddies, not really enough experience to make a judgement on discus...but it is interesting that my Geo, when on his own, was a very confident happy chappy without much in the way of stress lines

 

[DiscusKeeper403]

@DK403, do you think those stress bars Eric is displaying are beyond what would be expected for a newly introduced discus group in the same time span or is it just too early to say?

The stress bars are normal for newly introduced Discus, by no means is it beyond what I would expect. IMO Stress bars are better called mood bars, as some Discus can almost always show stress bars and still be healthy/happy, while others can show them when eating or fighting. Hiding, lack of appetite, lethargicness, dull/dark color (body and eyes) and especially sickness are the best stress indicators.

 

[hamfist]

In the group of discus in the shop where I got Eric they all seemed pretty happy and confident. Only one of that shoal was not displaying the mood bars, and that was the alpha male. So I took the expression of those bars not as a sign of stress but as a sign of submission to the alpha male. Eric actually was that alpha male.