Help! Contaminated plants arrived? Baking soda?

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

I ordered a mixed stem plant package from amazon, have used them before and the last times, plants arrived healthy, with warnings about possible snails. Fine by me.

This time, many arrived rotting (have emailed them, I'm blaming the heatwave), but going to try to save the rest. Problem is, the leaflet says

"Plants are incubated in a solution of 0.01% of the insecticide Buprafezin for one hour (please do not just drop these in a shrimp tank or with any other crustacean). To use these within a tank please wash in water with baking soda under light. These are treated to remove the insecticide but there are cases where this has not been fully removed causing casualties in crustacean."

Helpfully, it doesn't tell you how much to use, for how long.... Had I known about this, I don't think I'd have ordered from them again. I called about the rotting plants/insecticide, and she clearly wanted off the phone, said to soak the plants in baking soda under a good light for 24 hours?? She said the ratio they use, something like 19 parts water, but I'm not sure I caught it properly.

To make it worse, I don't have baking soda, I have biocarb of soda. Very nervous now about getting this wrong and killing my shrimp, have already lost a couple since starting medications for worms. @essjay, anyone, any ideas?

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Doesn't look too bad, right? Oh, but this is after I'd removed the most rotten ones. Look closer...

Before I'd sorted it;

I think this one is althernia, but it's not doing terribly well either...

This one, I don't know what it is, or if any of it will live. Doesn't look so bad at the top;

But when you get a better look at the bottom half...

This is the only bunch out of five that looked absolutely fine! Is it a hygrophila maybe?

And this stuff, meh. Looks like it'll live, don't love it, not sure what it is either. Maybe a camboba?

It's a mystery what this was, it was a rotten mess when it arrived. Most of it sank to the bottom of the bucket.

 

[Essjay]

Baking soda is bicarbonate of soda. Sodium hydrogen carbonate, old name sodium bicarbonate.

I haven't used bicarb like this so I'm not sure what 19 parts water means. It sounds as though it should be 1 tablespoon bicarb to 19 tablespoons water but that can't be right.

For now, I'd put them in a bucket of plain water to keep them alive. You could try running a small filter, if you have one, full of carbon and change the water and carbon every day. Or use Polyfilter (capital P), which is expensive so I'd use it after a few days of carbon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0036TB2CC/?tag=
It used to be made by a company called Underworld, now it's under the name Arcadia so you could find it under either name.


In the future, they may be a lot more expensive but in vitro plants are safe for inverts. The seller k2aqua on ebay sells plants which are guaranteed shrimp safe (including in vitro plants), and I think there are others. Pets at Home (yes, I know) is reputed to sell Tropica plants which are safe - as long as you make sure they are labelled as Tropica.


Edit to add - plants imported from outside the EU have to be treated with a snail killer just in case any apple snails or their eggs are on the plants. Those plants grown within the EU do not have to be treated.
Edit again - forgot to mention that the website Proshrimp also sells shrimp safe plants.

 

[seangee]

I would not use them. I previously spoke with the guys at Pro Shrimp and they advised that plants from outside the EU could never be made to be guaranteed shrimp safe. For that reason I always buy in vitero plants or use a shrimp supplier like pro shrimp who can guarantee their plants are sourced in the EU and never been subjected to mandatory dipping. May cost a bit more but for the peace of mind...

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Baking soda is bicarbonate of soda. Sodium hydrogen carbonate, old name sodium bicarbonate.

I haven't used bicarb like this so I'm not sure what 19 parts water means. It sounds as though it should be 1 tablespoon bicarb to 19 tablespoons water but that can't be right.

For now, I'd put them in a bucket of plain water to keep them alive. You could try running a small filter, if you have one, full of carbon and change the water and carbon every day. Or use Polyfilter (capital P), which is expensive so I'd use it after a few days of carbon. https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0036TB2CC/?tag=
It used to be made by a company called Underworld, now it's under the name Arcadia so you could find it under either name.


In the future, they may be a lot more expensive but in vitro plants are safe for inverts. The seller k2aqua on ebay sells plants which are guaranteed shrimp safe (including in vitro plants), and I think there are others. Pets at Home (yes, I know) is reputed to sell Tropica plants which are safe - as long as you make sure they are labelled as Tropica.

Thank you! I thought I'd found a good cheap source, since it worked out fine the last two times I bought from them, shrimp are in a tank with those plants now. But seems they've changed their procedures.

To be fair, the plants cost £14. By the time I buy carbon or the polyfilter, when most of the plants are already dying, it wouldn't be worth trying to clean them anyway.

I would not use them. I previously spoke with the guys at Pro Shrimp and they advised that plants from outside the EU could never be made to be guaranteed shrimp safe. For that reason I always buy in vitero plants or use a shrimp supplier like pro shrimp who can guarantee their plants are sourced in the EU and never been subjected to mandatory dipping. May cost a bit more but for the peace of mind...

These are apparently from the UK, the name of the place is in the UK anyway, but maybe they source their plants from abroad, I don't know. I'm feeling doubtful about using any of the plants that survive anyway now. Thank you though.

 

[FishGuest5123]

We’ve all lost money in plants before. Everything I’ve bought this hot Summer has ended up melting. I agree that it would be better to ditch them.

 

[Essjay]

Do you have any tanks which do not have inverts (shrimps, snails)? Any that can be salvaged could be used in invert-less tanks.

 

[Essjay]

These are apparently from the UK, the name of the place is in the UK anyway, but maybe they source their plants from abroad, I don't know. I'm feeling doubtful about using any of the plants that survive anyway now. Thank you though.

Just because the seller is based in the UK doesn't mean the plants were grown in the Uk or EU I'm afraid.

 

[seangee]

Just because the seller is based in the UK doesn't mean the plants were grown in the Uk or EU I'm afraid.

Its pretty much guaranteed they weren't. They would not go to the trouble or expense unless legally required.

 

[PheonixKingZ]

Hope they all recover, they look like they will be nice plants.

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Do you have any tanks which do not have inverts (shrimps, snails)? Any that can be salvaged could be used in invert-less tanks.

I do, but I'd bought these to fill out the new tank I'm setting up for the shrimp, plus since I tend to move plants and fish between tanks, I worry I'd forget which these were, and put them in with shrimp sometime once they'd grown in more.

New tanks are going to be looking pretty bare for a while I'll take some cuttings from the plants I already have, and I checked out that seller on ebay, thank you for that! It looks like a good, reasonably priced source. But with buying four bottles of eSHa meds this month, and £1000 vet bills the other months, I really can't splash out much more cash on plants for a while.

Just because the seller is based in the UK doesn't mean the plants were grown in the Uk or EU I'm afraid.

You're very right. I just looked up the seller's webpage, and even though they say they farm plants weekly, it also says they import plants from Thailand.

We’ve all lost money in plants before. Everything I’ve bought this hot Summer has ended up melting. I agree that it would be better to ditch them.

Thanks love. So disappointed! Since it worked out well buying from them before, I took it for granted that it would be fine this time. The price really was too good to be true! Ah well. Live and learn.

 

[seangee]

In the future, they may be a lot more expensive but in vitro plants are safe for inverts. The seller k2aqua on ebay sells plants which are guaranteed shrimp safe (including in vitro plants), and I think there are others. Pets at Home (yes, I know) is reputed to sell Tropica plants which are safe - as long as you make sure they are labelled as Tropica.

I can vouch for the quality of plants from this supplier - but perhaps wait till its a little cooler. He / she also often has 4 for 3 or 3 for 2 deals

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

Really quite annoyed about this, although I share blame for being a cheapskate. Checked their ad again, and no mention is made of dipping, they give the previous warning about potential snails though. The company isn't answering the phone now.

I did find this interesting article about these chemicals and shrimp though

PFK investigates: Shrimps killed by mail order plants!

PFK investigates: Shrimps killed by mail order plants!

www.practicalfishkeeping.co.uk

@essjay and @seangee, the article says this about buprafezin;
"Buprofezin is an insecticide – specifically an acaricide. It is not approved for use in the UK. The degradation half life is 50 days within soil and 16 days in water at pH 7.0, 20C. This product specifically requires extended quarantine of at least 48 hours. [...] Buprofezin is used by some exporters. It’s another protector of Californian crops, mainly grapes, and it functions by inhibiting the synthesis of chitin, much in the same way as one of the methods used to control parasites like Argulus.[...]
Buprofezen is quite stable in alkaline water, and less in acidic with a half-life of around 50 days at a pH of 5.0.

However, the doses used by plant exporters are quite low. Although a longer bath time and concentration is used, 120 minutes in 0.1% solution, this is the chemical I’d least implicate in shrimp deaths."

So perhaps if I quarantine these plants for some time since I have them, then use them only in the tank without shrimp/snails for at least 50 days, after that, they should be safe?

I guess the baking soda they suggest is to make it the water more alkaline to try to remove any traces of the pesticide, but the article suggests that buprofezin is quite stable in alkaline water and less so in acidic?

My tapwater is usually between 7,6 and 8 pH. I'm confusing myself now.

I won't be ordering from them again, but I am tempted to try to save these plants since I have them, and since I could keep them in a fish only tank for now, if this has a half life that means they'll be shrimp safe after a while.

 

[seangee]

In 50 days the plants will have plenty of new growth. Taking cuttings from the new growth and replanting those is perfectly safe.
Personally I don't have that level of patience

 

[AdoraBelle Dearheart]

In 50 days the plants will have plenty of new growth. Taking cuttings from the new growth and replanting those is perfectly safe.
Personally I don't have that level of patience

Haha, I don't have much patience either! If I had more funds, I'd just throw these out and order a ton of in vitro plants and fill my tanks that way. Sadly, funds are tight, so the idea of throwing away plants when I have two new tanks to fill pains me, lol. Plus since I emailed them the photos about the rotting plants, think they'll be sending replacements, so throwing them all out... eek. If it's too risky though, I'd throw them rather than take a chance of hurting my shrimplets.

If soaking them in biocarb for 48 hours under a tank light (they're in a bucket under my tank light now, but haven't added biocab yet until essjay weighs in about acidity/alkalinity) then leaving them in the fish only tank to grow for a few months until I can take cuttings later, I can live with that Going to have to buy more plants eventually for the shrimp tank/new oto set up either way, but at least this way, these ones won't go to waste and will be safe eventually.