Debate

[emmsy]

Just before I go to my party at 6, I thought I would start another debate going.

Debate subject is...... Using fry for food.

Many people have experienced a situation where daddy fish loves mummy fish very much, and have some little fishies at the end of it.
Alot of people then take for granted that the LFS will take them. When they find out that their fry are two a penny, and not even worth the price of a tin of fish food, a situation emergies that you now have a load of fish that are gonna grow and need a tank of their own. Either that, or stick them in the tank with the big fish that will probably use them as food.

Is it ethical that LFS should sell male and female fish together without first checking with the customer that if fry are created, they can look after them should the LFS not want them.

Breeding provides a wonderful challenge, but has consequences...


Debate and discuss

 

[OldMan47]

OK Emmsy, I'll start it. Although I would prefer that a lfs not sell fish to people who have no good place to keep them, I don't think they have any responsibility for what the people do with them after they go out the door. On the other hand, an employee at the lfs can tell pretty quickly if they are dealing with someone who is totally clueless about how to care for fish and should provide some advice before allowing incompatible fish to go out with that person. Once the advice has been given I again believe their responsibility has ended. You can't prevent people from being excessively optomistic about what they will do with breeding results and you can't keep them from buying a male one day and a female the next so how could you stop them? I don't want to fill out a questionnaire every time I buy a fish or a tank or anything else.

 

[shelaghfishface]

oh no i hate this suggestion!!,but then im a girly pants, i would never even dream of intenionlally letting fish eat my babies,no no no!
i wouldnt care if i had to spend hundreds of pounds buying new tanks etc to keep them- assuming the lfs didnt want them,i dont think its ethical, but then, if a fishkeeper wants a pair,then are they going to admit they dont have the room,
3 weeks ago i bought male/female paltys home and one gave birth in the bag, but i didnt kill them or feed them to a big fish, i put them safley in a fry net-in the fy tank, along with 100+ more that i have, its now my duty to re-home or care for these fish.................but then im not a hardend fishkeeper, who has seen it all before, my oscars will never eat fish ( live) and im dead against it, you wouldnt treat a dog the same so why a fish ( is that over sentimental??-who cares my opinion!!!)

love the way you are going to leave us all tearing strips off eachother while ur out partying emma!! lol
shelagh xxxxxxxxx

 

[emmsy]

Thanks for your input. I think you have an extremely valid point. I know it would be an impossible thing to police, but you commented on the attitude of LFS employees, and beg to differ. Most of the LFS employees may be qualified and experienced, but they are renowned for giving sketchy or bad advice, and not sussing people out who purchase fish.


Emma

love the way you are going to leave us all tearing strips off eachother while ur out partying emma!! lol
shelagh xxxxxxxxx
[/quote]


Oh, c'mon mate! you should know that is my style by now!..


Okay shelagh, say you had a pair that produce 30 fish. Assuming they all survived, could you really cope with another 30 fish?

Emma

 

[ALW]

we should try to re-home any unwanted fish, we shouldnt use them as food (would you like it if a gave your new born baby to a Lion to eat because there isnt enought room in your house, Would never do it like)

 

[emmsy]

well that is my opinion too andy

Emma

 

[Miss Wiggle]

it's natural for not all of the fish to survive though, if fish in the wild knew all their babies would survivie, they'd just have 1/2. because they know the majority won't survive they have evolved to have loads of babies knowing that the majority will be eaten or die and that only the fittest will survive, darwinism.

personally i don't keeo livebearers so don't end up inundated with fry i can't shift, but when i have had them before i've just left them to do their own thing in community tanks, so the 1/2 fry that survive i'll have room for and can keep and then i'm not overrun. likewise the majority of non livebearing species if they did decide to breed i'd have to take special measures to kee the fry, i just don't do it so we don't end up with babies.

 

[OldMan47]

Emma, I never intended to say that my lfs employees are ethical in dealing with customers. I would consider it ethical if they gave the much needed advice.

 

[shelaghfishface]

we should try to re-home any unwanted fish, we shouldnt use them as food (would you like it if a gave your new born baby to a Lion to eat because there isnt enought room in your house, Would never do it like)

no def not!!

and yes emma i keep livebearers by choice and try to save all the babies, my lfs will take them its just i cant part with them!, but god no, i wouldnt dream of using them as feeders as its my choice to keep them
and they are not in the wild, so we have to make choices,



have a fun eve emma xxxxxxxxxx

 

[BigC]

Quite a lot of fishkeepers buy their fish for so called community or biotope type aquariums. breeding in these type of setups especially common livebearers means that few fry survive and most get eaten by other tankmates or canabalistic parents (cichlids aside). Thats fine with me. Other folks, mostly people who are new to the hobby, hold a different view and try to rescue the poor wee things. Every last one they can muster. Then housing becomes a problem and a new tank is spawned. This in turn leads to another tank and so on. This forms the catyalist of many an ardent aquarist, this is how they start out, and their hobby grows and grows as they become more and more inquisitive. Many folks go on to construct fish rooms and join national and international aquarist societies and all this is spawned from your local fish shop selling you a pair of common livebearers or the like. You'll always return to a good LFS and you will spend a pretty penny in there over the years to come, so on your original statement regarding the possible policeing of selling pairs of easy to breed fish, its not in their interest to do this. Once people get over the first stages of haphazard fish breeding in community aquaria and get to the stage of serious intentional breeding then one of the main things they should be considering is how to get rid of their surplus stock. After culling of runts and inferior specimens they should only be passing on good quality fish, this inturn eventually gets you a good reputation and the passing of surplus stock becomes easier. Just a point I've been in this game a long while and selling fish is not a get rich quick scheme.
Just a few points to consider
Regards
BigC

 

[Piltdownpaul]

I couldnt agree with BigC more-happened to me-i dont make much from fish sales but i enjoy the breeding side-but 6 tanks is enough for me.............

 

[shelaghfishface]

hence my point about me NOT being a hardened fish keeper, maybe one day ill change my mind,yes i agree, i do try to save every last one, but i dont panic if i see that the female has already started giving birth in the tank,

 

[shroob]

Do you mean purposely having fish breed eg. guppies or convicts for the sole purpose of feeding their young to other fish, or say in a community tank, where unexpected fry comes along?

 

[Helen G]

I wouldn't intentionaly give my fry to big fish as food, but I am happy to let nature take it's course, if one of my larger fish decided to snack on a fry, I wouldn't do anything to stop it. I know it sounds crude, but it's a fish eat fish world, and that's what happens in the wild.


Have a good night hun, don't drink too many shandies!!!!!
Helen
x

 

[BigC]

I've just come back from a holiday in Queensland Australia and whilst there I visited a few aquarist shops and most of them sold feeder fish. (Guppies etc)
Not really a practice here in the UK.
Regards
BigC