Yay for Brexit! (this is really about aquatic plants)

Gypsum

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My LFS put this notice on their Facebook page:

"Bad news from the Netherlands where most aquatic plants come from
😪

To sum up it will be far too expensive to get plants, we suggest if your after plants get them now. We are fully stocked.
Dear UK customers,
It is with great regret that I’m informing you that the Brexit deal is not very positive for our mutual business.
This week (today and tomorrow) is the LAST SHIPPING POSSIBILITY to ship you plants by UPS and WITHOUT phytosanitary certificate
If you would like to make use of this opportunity we kindly ask you to send us your order as soon as possible.
From January 1st:
Every shipment needs to be inspected and approved by the Dutch phytosanitary (plant health) department and a phytosanitary certificate has to be sent with the shipment. This is not free of charge so it also brings a lot of extra costs per shipment.
Every shipment needs to be shipped to a by the UK approved point of entry (on the border or for example London Heathrow airport) and inspected and approved by the UK phytosanitary department (since there are not (yet) enough inspectors available in the UK they will probably inspect by sample inspections). In The Netherlands this is not free of charge, I’m not sure how the UK government deals with this, maybe they offer it as a free service for the first period?
We can only ship with transport companies that know and are able to handle the customs and health inspection procedures. UPS is not able to do this so we need to either ship by flower truck or by air with regular (freight) airlines. Unfortunately these transport options are much more expensive, these companies work with minimum rates like a pallet rate (flower truck) or a minimum volume rate in kilos (airline). For shipments by air you need to find a broker at the airport of entry who is capable of importing plants from outside the EU.
There will be a much longer delay between ordering and delivering
Apart from the fact that all of this means delay and a lot of extra administrative procedures on both sides it unfortunately means a lot of extra costs. The health certificate in The Netherlands is expensive."

Fantastic. I know...it's way too easy to have nice things. Let's vote to make it harder. I wonder if this will affect fish as well, since some of the major holding sites for fish shipped to Europe from South America and Asia are in the Netherlands.
 

Wills

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It is an interesting point but given how much of the hobby comes from Asia and America there will still be availability for fish and some plants. But... it does mean that the better nursuries like Tropica and Aquaflora in Denmark and Netherlands respectively. The asian farms are more likely to have issues with disease and chemicals which is pretty well documented over the years and the US imports are generally more niche aspects of the hobby like cichlids and predators.

Interestingly I've just got back from a few LFS looking for plants all the plant tanks were empty... I suspected it was because of Christmas but maybe someting more?

Its also concerning as most LFS work from distributors rather than direct imports so its going to really effect some stores badly.

Even more interestingly, this wont just affect aquatic plants it will be all the garden centres and cut flowers too...

Just an FYI - not a fan of brexit...
 

Utar

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Welcome to socialism and the era of big government.
 
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Gypsum

Gypsum

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No, nothing to do with socialism. Brexit is capitalism on steroids. 'Disaster capitalism.' The people behind it stand to make a lot of money through hedge funds, venture capital firms, and of course, being able to shift capital off-shore into tax havens outwith EU curbs on such behaviour. It's not a simple dichotomy -- many businesses in the UK realise they're f**cked and did not vote for this, including the fish shops, but it's the hedge funds and venture capitalists calling the shots. When businesses go bust, these are the people making money off their corpses. Boris and his pals will get richer. The rest of us are screwed.
 

Wills

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Welcome to socialism and the era of big government.
Promises promises :) But Gypsum is right few people will benefit from the changes and it is about what the Conservative UK government do in response to make it worth while and based on what they have done over the last 10 years it will be far from any kind of socialism.

Wills
 

Utar

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Promises promises :) But Gypsum is right few people will benefit from the changes and it is about what the Conservative UK government do in response to make it worth while and based on what they have done over the last 10 years it will be far from any kind of socialism.

Wills
It doesn't really matter now does it. Your still centralizing power, and centralized power is easy to control by those with the influence to do so.
 
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Gypsum

Gypsum

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The UK has *always* had centralized power in a way the US does not. It's called Parliamentary democracy. Has nothing to do with socialism -- it evolved in kind of a slow, muddled way a few hundred years before anyone invented that idea. The majority party in Parliament and the Prime Minister will always be the same party. That's how the system works. People elect a party, not a PM, and the party chooses their PM (in reality, people are electing a PM, as he/she is the face of the party). As an American expat, I would prefer a few more checks and balances myself, but it is what it is. There are fewer restraints on the PM's power than you have in a constitutional system like the US, which was deliberately designed to shift more power to the legislative branch and provide heftier constraints on the executive. The nations that make up the UK -- England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland -- also have less sovereignty than a US state because this is not a federal system.

Brexit doesn't centralize the UK government anymore than it already was. It just takes us out of a major trade block and throws more hurdles in the way of businesses and individuals working with the rest of Europe. And stops free movement.
 

Utar

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No, nothing to do with socialism. Brexit is capitalism on steroids. 'Disaster capitalism.' The people behind it stand to make a lot of money through hedge funds, venture capital firms, and of course, being able to shift capital off-shore into tax havens outwith EU curbs on such behaviour. It's not a simple dichotomy -- many businesses in the UK realise they're f**cked and did not vote for this, including the fish shops, but it's the hedge funds and venture capitalists calling the shots. When businesses go bust, these are the people making money off their corpses. Boris and his pals will get richer. The rest of us are screwed.
How does a bloated centralized government help that? Yes unbridled capitalism is evil I get that, but are you sure your putting all that power into the right hands with insurances that it will forever benefit the middle class. The most dangerous from of government to the middle class is centralized power. This thread itself is absolute proof that government regulations destroys jobs, people have to eat and feed their families. We here in the States don't need to order plants from the Netherlands, so where are they to sale those plants. Will they not go out of buisness and have to close down and find work elsewhere.
 

Utar

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The UK has *always* had centralized power in a way the US does not. It's called Parliamentary democracy. Has nothing to do with socialism -- it evolved in kind of a slow, muddled way a few hundred years before anyone invented that idea. The majority party in Parliament and the Prime Minister will always be the same party. That's how the system works. People elect a party, not a PM, and the party chooses their PM (in reality, people are electing a PM, as he/she is the face of the party). As an American expat, I would prefer a few more checks and balances myself, but it is what it is. There are fewer restraints on the PM's power than you have in a constitutional system like the US, which was deliberately designed to shift more power to the legislative branch and provide heftier constraints on the executive. The nations that make up the UK -- England, Scotland, Wales, and Northern Ireland -- also have less sovereignty than a US state because this is not a federal system.

Brexit doesn't centralize the UK government anymore than it already was. It just takes us out of a major trade block and throws more hurdles in the way of businesses and individuals working with the rest of Europe. And stops free movement.
I don't understand was there not free trade between France and England and the rest of Europe before power was centralized in Brussels? If your talking about excise taxes on imported goods, then be sure absolutely sure your not paying more taxes now then before all this came about. For instance here in Texas, we don't have a government state tax, but we do pay higher state taxes on stuff we buy. But I want the freedom to choose if I want to or not buying something that cost me taxes then being forced to pay taxes to a government that can take everything I own if I don't pay them.
 

Utar

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Has anyone here ever watched the show Poldark? I am watching it again for the second time, great show and it is a British production. The underlying main theme of the show is the difference between individual liberty and an evil all powerful centralized government. Centralized power was then and will always be controlled by those with the influence to do so.
 
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Gypsum

Gypsum

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Prior to the creation of the EEC (European Economic Community) in 1957, which was the precursor to the EU formed in part due to the desire of the European countries to not do the whole world war thing again, and in part due to concerns about the Soviet Union, no, there was no real free trade between European countries. Had a couple world wars, though.
 

DAnCSF

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So why not make lemonade? This could be a business opportunity for someone to develop a local aquarium plant business eh....or you could just moan and groan and get artificial plants eh?
 

Wills

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So why not make lemonade? This could be a business opportunity for someone to develop a local aquarium plant business eh....or you could just moan and groan and get artificial plants eh?
I have to admit I have been day dreaming this afternoon haha 😂
 

kwi

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Speaking to a guy in a local Maidenhead it appears all livestock will have to be inspected on entry to the UK, by a DARD vet, and there are no gurantees on timescale or temperature control.........so expect a high rate of transit attrition pushing the prices up. At least I live in a CTA wirh the EU so can buy my livestock and drive it home myself. Infact my Honeys came from Ireland.
 
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