Which Cycle?

[OldMan47]

A fishless cycle that gets a jump start from an existing cycled filter is likely to go very quickly. It will give you the chance to have your fish fairly quickly but know that they are safe because you will prove the filter is ready before any fish get added.

 

[mystus]

A fishless cycle that gets a jump start from an existing cycled filter is likely to go very quickly. It will give you the chance to have your fish fairly quickly but know that they are safe because you will prove the filter is ready before any fish get added.

How long should I leave the new filter in the old tank to let it get the bacteria it needs?

 

[OldMan47]

Don't leave the new filter in the old tank to clone the old filter. Instead either move some of the media between filters or rinse out the old filter to clobber the new filter with a coating of the right bacteria. Operating the filters side by side means waiting until some bacteria happen to infect the new filter and then grow. That is a much slower way to do things although it is often stated that it will work in about a month.

 

[Yanks15]

Don't mean to hijack, but......what effect will bio-spira have on doing either type of cycling? I'm interested because I just killed my bacteria by treating for columnaris and was advised to give it try to bring them back. If this stuff works, couldn't you just pour this in and instantly cycle? How well does this work?

Thanks.

 

[waterdrop]

Don't mean to hijack, but......what effect will bio-spira have on doing either type of cycling? I'm interested because I just killed my bacteria by treating for columnaris and was advised to give it try to bring them back. If this stuff works, couldn't you just pour this in and instantly cycle? How well does this work?

Thanks.

I believe (someone correct me) in the past that Bio-Spira in the USA and Bactinettes in the UK were found to work in a few isolated cases where there happened to be a knowledgeable LFS with refrigeration working closely with a distributor who had refrigeration and who guaranteed refrigerated transport for the entire transport path. Apparently the reason that success was so rare was often that somewhere along the way the packaging would just get dumped unceremoniously on a loading dock somewhere along the way and the bacteria would die in the heat. There is speculation that the same sort of possibilities of occasional success might be starting up again with the Hovanec "one and only" product in california.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[mystus]

Don't leave the new filter in the old tank to clone the old filter. Instead either move some of the media between filters or rinse out the old filter to clobber the new filter with a coating of the right bacteria. Operating the filters side by side means waiting until some bacteria happen to infect the new filter and then grow. That is a much slower way to do things although it is often stated that it will work in about a month.

So I could just wash the old filter over the new filter and let the water drip form the old filter to the new one?

 

[timbruun]

your best bet would be to remove some media from the old one.

 

[sheag35]

your best bet would be to remove some media from the old one.

I totally agree your best bet is to seed your filter from an existing one by either adding a filter pad from it into the new one or simply squeezing some filter media into your new tank which while a little more hit and miss will shorten your cycle time, but firstly just to ask do you have a test kit for your water perameters if so use it weekly when all readings for nitrite / nitrate / ammonia are zero add your fish but slowly and in small numbers as to prevent a spike in any of the reading leave it a week or two then add a few more fish and repeat till your stocked up this will prevent the over eager i want i want i want buying of loads of fish in the first week then wondering why they died, your filter will have to adjust to the increased levels and this will take time..

I would go with the prawn method rather than adding household ammonia just dont trust that method in my 26 yrs of fishkeeping or do as i do and a month or two before you buy a new tank buy the filter first and have it seeded before the tank arrives then when the tank comes all you'll have to do is treat the water to get rid of metals chlorine etc and come up to tempreature and when it has attach your seeded filter and your in business.... this has worked for me for the last 10 yrs with not one fish loss

hope this has been of use to you

 

[timbruun]

for sure sheag35. i have 2 aquaclear 110 on a 55 gal tank not only for really good filtration but when i do buy a new tank i can just grap one of them and put it on the new one and if need be replace it with a new filter on the old tank. one of the benefits of having 2 filters instead of one big one.

 

[Yanks15]

Don't mean to hijack, but......what effect will bio-spira have on doing either type of cycling? I'm interested because I just killed my bacteria by treating for columnaris and was advised to give it try to bring them back. If this stuff works, couldn't you just pour this in and instantly cycle? How well does this work?

Thanks.

I believe (someone correct me) in the past that Bio-Spira in the USA and Bactinettes in the UK were found to work in a few isolated cases where there happened to be a knowledgeable LFS with refrigeration working closely with a distributor who had refrigeration and who guaranteed refrigerated transport for the entire transport path. Apparently the reason that success was so rare was often that somewhere along the way the packaging would just get dumped unceremoniously on a loading dock somewhere along the way and the bacteria would die in the heat. There is speculation that the same sort of possibilities of occasional success might be starting up again with the Hovanec "one and only" product in california.

~~waterdrop~~

I do have a lfs that has it and is refrigerated. I would have to find out if their supply chain does as well. The owner told me that others have used it from his store and had success. I could take him at his word because it is a small store and would be hurting future sales if he lies about it. I might ask him for some names of people that it has worked for. I doubt I'll get any. As far as Nutrifin Cycle, how is it that they can get away with saying that the bacteria can live for 2yrs on the shelf without refrigeration? Has anyone ever challenged them on this? I would think that a quick look under a microscope would show you. I think my daughter has one. I might give it a try.

 

[waterdrop]

Don't mean to hijack, but......what effect will bio-spira have on doing either type of cycling? I'm interested because I just killed my bacteria by treating for columnaris and was advised to give it try to bring them back. If this stuff works, couldn't you just pour this in and instantly cycle? How well does this work?

Thanks.

I believe (someone correct me) in the past that Bio-Spira in the USA and Bactinettes in the UK were found to work in a few isolated cases where there happened to be a knowledgeable LFS with refrigeration working closely with a distributor who had refrigeration and who guaranteed refrigerated transport for the entire transport path. Apparently the reason that success was so rare was often that somewhere along the way the packaging would just get dumped unceremoniously on a loading dock somewhere along the way and the bacteria would die in the heat. There is speculation that the same sort of possibilities of occasional success might be starting up again with the Hovanec "one and only" product in california.

~~waterdrop~~

I do have a lfs that has it and is refrigerated. I would have to find out if their supply chain does as well. The owner told me that others have used it from his store and had success. I could take him at his word because it is a small store and would be hurting future sales if he lies about it. I might ask him for some names of people that it has worked for. I doubt I'll get any. As far as Nutrifin Cycle, how is it that they can get away with saying that the bacteria can live for 2yrs on the shelf without refrigeration? Has anyone ever challenged them on this? I would think that a quick look under a microscope would show you. I think my daughter has one. I might give it a try.

Is this that new store you mentioned in Raleigh? Interesting. One of the things I'd always hoped to discuss with Tim Hovanec (if he had continued to login, but unfortunately he didn't as far as I know) was the nature of longevity and transport of our two types of bacteria. I suspect that almost any serious discussion of the topic would have quickly felt to uncomfortably close to trade secrets to him though. I know that there are plenty of bacterial types that take advantage of the use of a "spore" stage (or whatever the correct term is) to essentially send out a "seed" that can survive under very adverse conditions for a very long time and then be triggered under the right conditions to come out of that stage and begin a normal life cycle. My vague memory is that neither Nitrosomonas nor Nitrospira are bacteria that make use of a spore but I can't be sure I'm remembering that correctly. So its always been quite curious to think about them somehow being packaged under conditions that would somehow allow their survival for such a long time. BTT and I have been curious about these sorts of details for a pretty long time but even some bacteriology texts from my colleagues here at the university haven't shed any helpful light on it.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[OldMan47]

The cycle product can get away with whatever they like. There are no regulations about labeling on fish products. The most you can ever hope to do is sue the manufacturer if the claims prove to be false but, all it would take to defend against such a claim would be to question you in depth on what exactly you did with the product and then somehow put you in the wrong.

Fish food claims are even worse. A person can list protein content as a simple percentage without saying that all of the protein is vegetable protein and incomplete protein at that. The categories usually listed can be bent and twisted in every fashion imaginable without outright lying and because there is no governing regulation, the simple fact that it is not an outright lie means you can do nothing about it. Unlike human food products, there is no law saying the main component, or the largest component needs to be listed first. Have a close look a food marked as an algae food. The first ingredient, if they happen to follow convention, is not likely to be any form of algae but a cereal grain product instead.

Unless you nurture a healthy skepticism, you will have more money spent per unit of benefit in this hobby than in most others. Completely unregulated industries are the haunts of the latest generation of robber barons. The fish hobby is such an industry so don't expect product claims like "can speed your cycle" to mean much more than "anything is possible, maybe you will get lucky".

 

[Yanks15]

Oldman, is this your opinion with bio-spira as well? I've heard a few people on this forum suggest using it because it's the only one that actually produced results. I've never used either so I have no idea. If cared for properly, meaning packaged, transported, and retailed, do you think bio-spira would help in my situation? ( lost bacteria due to meds. )

Otherwise, I guess I'm in for a long fish-in re-cycle!

 

[OldMan47]

Biospira has had some limited success if it has been properly cared for until it is used. Since the manufacture of it stopped over a year ago, I have my doubts if any remaining product would work as well as when it was fresh. I always allow facts to interfere with my hopes and wishes about product performance. Since they stopped making biospira, I have no good suggestion for a cycle booster except to borrow bacteria from a mature filter.

 

[Yanks15]

Thanks for that info. What is the life span of it if it's been cared for properly? Is this company out of business now?

Also, I do have another tank that has been cycled for some time now. There is no media that I can pull from there- Aqueon filter- Is there anything else I can take from there and put into the dead tank? Gravel? Plants?