the natural system??

[nick.w]

hey, ive jst started researching on keeping marine fish and reef set-ups and im far from setting it up. I have a tank, a 30 gal juwel with a filter in it but from reading articles they arnt good for reef set ups. From reading this book, the complete book of marine aquarium the best filtration set up is the natural one. The book seeems to speak really highly of it. It involves live rock and live sand 6inches of it!! anyone that knows this set-up can help me out.
it says it cant b dne for a 30 gal is this true?
It also says u need a protein skimmer with the live rock and sand is that it any other kind of filtration??? cause ill get rid of the standard 1 wit the juwel.

 

[Navarre]

What type of juwel is it? I have a Juwel vision 180 which is natural.. It runs a skimmer and liverock but no DSB.

Juwels arent really designed for marine tanks but they can work if you know what you are doing. Its mostly the hood and light problems with juwels rather than anythig else to be honest.

 

[Navarre]

I forgot to mention.. i have a vision 180 but to stop confusion from other threads, i also have a 100 glaon setup (and my sons has a 35 gallon setup) all these are in UK gallons

I will try and find a photo of the Juwel and post it here.

 

[nick.w]

yea its a juwel 180, the sqaure 1. They do make juwel lights now for marine fish and reef tanks my lfs has a reef set-up at the front. So u can have that kind of set up in that size tank?? with the 6inches of sand. Does it work well?? will i just need a lot of live rock and the correct sand set up ( seperated and that) and a skimmer??

 

[Navarre]

OK thats good, now we have some building blocks

Now Juwels arent designed for sumps (and their stands definately arent) so unless you tell me otherwise i will assume you wont be using a sump.

This will limit your options slightly but its still workable.
This is a 40 gallon tank (UK gallons) so i would suggest 20kg at the very least for filtration purposes.
I would not recomend a deep sand base in this tank for the following reasons. Its limited in space, you will have to place the live rock on the sand and this will cause deadspots in the sand (not a good idea).
I would sugest either no sand at all and have a clean system so waste can be easily cleaned, a thin layer of sand that is no more than an inch deep, or a rubble zone which is made up of grunge live rock and used as a substrate.

As for the internal filter. now this is up to you. you could remove it and gain extra space or keep it in ans utilise the extra water turnover that the powerhead can give you (lots of turnover in a reef tank ) this also gives the added advantage of allowing you to add things like carbon, rowaphos etc if needed.

A protien skimmer would be good for this type of tank. Im not much of an expert with skimmers so i hope that perhaps someone here can recomend a good skimmer for a tank like this. I personally have a Prizm hang on skimmer (i dont use it anymore). The prizm is not the best in the world and to be honest it probably underskims but this is not a bad idea in a natural tank as it means that small trace eliments that would nomrally be removed by a very good skimmer would stil be in the tank for the corals to utilise. However, in this case and example of filtration, its really up to you what type of skimmer you want.

Hope this helps. feel free to ask any more questions if you feel the need

Navarre

P.S.
This is my natural reef system in the Juwel vision 180.

Natural seawater
30kg Live rock
Prizm Protien skimmer (only tun 3 days per week and only then 8 hors per day)
1x 1000ltr per hours powerhead.
1x Internal filter used merely as a powerhead and sponges.
1x Fluval 304 external. Only used for spnges and extra turnover in the tank.

7 redlegs
8 Astrea Snails
1 Copperband
3 Anthias
1 Bluethroat Trigger
1 Bicolour blenny
1 purple firefish
1 coral beauty
1 cleaner shrimp
3 bloodshrimps
1 Algea blenny
1 sandsifter starfish


(many of these have been transferred to the new tank)

 

[ste2k3]

I agree with Navarre. I would not use the DSB. for the same reasons and theres no need for them with good live rock and good skimming. As navarre said, some times it is good to under skim as you don't remove as much of the good things in the tank such as plankton. Athough in this case, I would go for the overskimming route as with not having a sump, the filtration capacity may not be as high and I presume you won't be going for some of the more demanding corals such as SPS (small polyped stony coreals) etc. As for a good skimmer I would recamed the MCE600 from deltec which would really overskim or the mc500 wich is smaller but is internal as opposed to hand on with the mce600. also, consider the aquamedic turboflotter 1000sl

ste

 

[nick.w]

hey, thanks for the help nivarre and ste2k3 thats has helped. I have a few questions:
1) the filter that comes with the juwel how shuld i treat it, the same as i wuld with FW like changing the sponges and that
2) i have no idea what those skimmers are how much are we talking about, they sounded large.
3) how long would u say the cycling process would b for a set up like this longer than normal?

 

[ste2k3]

1. The filter that comes with the juwel tank has a very slow flow and isn't really up to the job for a marine tank. You can either strip it down and use it for rowaphos (by D-Deltec) or antiphos (by aqua-medic) see links at the bottom. or you can remove it. If it were me, I would remove it and get an external to save room.

2. have a lok at the links at the bottom. to give you a rough guide price, the turbofloter SL from aquamedic sels for about £230+ but if you look around you can usually pick these up for £80-100 secondhand. The deltecs sell for about £190+ for the mc500 and about £230+ for the MCE600. Like I said, these are only ball park figures but I will find out the RRP for these if you like. all these are very good skimmers. I'd look round for second hand gear as you can get it a lot cheaper and if you'r not to sure about them, then you ould take someone to check them out for you.

3. some people say you can start to stock in 2-3 weeks when the levels are correct but I would say leave it 4 weeks with just water and live rock in etc with NO lights on and then you can add your cleaners after this time. at about 6 weeks you can start to stock slowly but don't rush.

ste

Links:

D-Deltec

AB Aqua-medic

 

[nick.w]

o right wow gona have to save up, im stil at skool!! its gona be very expensive with the skimmer, filter and all that live rock. If im stripping the tank of its filter i can get one a lot larger tank for only £50 would this be easier??. Im not sure how i wuld get the equipment second hand ill probably end up buying from my lfs even though their prices are probably a lot higher. Is it worth buying on the internet?