Stocking Increases..when Does The Mini Cycle Happen?

[craig855s]

Quick one

Tank was cycled for 4 livebearers
Added 4 harlequins and 1 Gibby on tuesday.tested for ammonia and nitrite 24 hours later..came back zeros
Added 3 Rummy noses and 1 male guppy yesterday after the above tests,levels checked just now,again zeros all round.

Test kit is API master liquid and in date so tests are accurate.

My question is...when does ammonia and nitrite spike rear its head from a stocking growth? Or do you think the filter is already cycled for this fair bio load (tetratex ex1200 in a 63USG tank) as i did use safestart and ammonia for a 10 day fishless period which i think has cycled my filter along quite well and that was not too long ago at all.

Im going to keep testing the water over the next few days and plan on increasing stocking again next wednesday (another 4, 5 or 6 rummy noses to complete the school) but if i get some good answers now i'd be tempted to get them tomorrow???

 

[raptorrex]

Quick one

Tank was cycled for 4 livebearers
Added 4 harlequins and 1 Gibby on tuesday.tested for ammonia and nitrite 24 hours later..came back zeros
Added 3 Rummy noses and 1 male guppy yesterday after the above tests,levels checked just now,again zeros all round.

Test kit is API master liquid and in date so tests are accurate.

My question is...when does ammonia and nitrite spike rear its head from a stocking growth? Or do you think the filter is already cycled for this fair bio load (tetratex ex1200 in a 63USG tank) as i did use safestart and ammonia for a 10 day fishless period which i think has cycled my filter along quite well and that was not too long ago at all.

Im going to keep testing the water over the next few days and plan on increasing stocking again next wednesday (another 4, 5 or 6 rummy noses to complete the school) but if i get some good answers now i'd be tempted to get them tomorrow???

short answer, is yes. add stock slowly after a fish in cycle. the bio mass is only up to the 4 livebreaders you used. another reason to use the "fish-less" system. you can FULLY stock, them, as soon as the cycle is done.

 

[OldMan47]

You are in a fish-in cycle and may now have enough fish to actually measure the progress. Stop adding fish for a couple of weeks and monitor your levels every few days. I think you will find that the tank size compared to the fish load has delayed you seeing the ammonia or the nitrites. Now that you are around 20% to 25% stocked for the tank, you could well finally see your ammonia start to rise. You need to stop thinking that just because you have no ammonia yet that the tank is cycled, you are kidding yourself and it will eventually cost you a lot of peace of mind. At your present levels, you might get away with a water change every 3 or 4 days once the bioload is felt by the water in the tank.

 

[craig855s]

Ill keep checking the levels as u have said but still im at the minute its still zeros. I honestly do think the 10 day period done my tank good (I think safestart may be a good cycling product)

After my shifts at work finish next wednesday if ive still seen nothing but zeros then more fish are going in.

 

[Forestpisces]

Did you say you have a gibby plec?

Those things get HUGE, it's in 63 USG is it?

I really don't think thats big enough and plecs are huge waste producers putting alot of strain on filteration.

 

[raptorrex]

(I think safestart may be a good cycling product)

please don't kid yourself. the good part of this product is "in your mind" (please take no offence), and in the advertising for it. the cycle takes as long as it takes, "startsafe" will change nothing, except the weight of your wallet.

 

[craig855s]

(I think safestart may be a good cycling product)

please don't kid yourself. the good part of this product is "in your mind" (please take no offence), and in the advertising for it. the cycle takes as long as it takes, "startsafe" will change nothing, except the weight of your wallet.

Thats what i used to think, but lets look at the facts..
Its listed as containing a shelf stable nitro-spira solution (the bacteria is held in stasis using funky chemicals or something)
Then there is the fact that during the entire time ive had fish in the tank (increasing numbers of fish over the last 2 weeks i have only seen .025 of ammonia for the first 36 hours (that was the the remnants of my liquid ammonia usage)

I know for a fact that the level of stocking i have now would make a noticeable level of ammonia occur even in fully fresh water. They've been in this water pooping and repiring for a long time now (10% water changes and vaccing once every 5 days) but there is absolutely nothing with regards to ammonia and nitrite. (and the poop is ALL OVER the sand bottom) so i do think i have quite a bit of bacteria in my filter now. I refuse to believe that the size of my tank means that this many fish arent creating enough ammonia to show/start growing the bacteria.

Next we have my plec...which im not sure what species it is now, its prob just some form of common plec (there has been a thread about it and the majority said it wasnt gibby)

 

[OldMan47]

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish Craig. I wish I could believe what you do because it would be great to find a cycle product that actually works.

 

[craig855s]

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish Craig. I wish I could believe what you do because it would be great to find a cycle product that actually works.

Then i recomend starting a tank up and trying it for yourself, There are quite a few good reviews for Safestart, along with Biospira (which is no longer sold IIRC) it is the only product that actually works (Ive also heard of 2 other products tha work but theyre VERY EXPENSIVE) One is nitrosomonos in a bottle and the other is nitrospira is a bottle

 

[raptorrex]

You are certainly free to believe whatever you wish Craig. I wish I could believe what you do because it would be great to find a cycle product that actually works.

Then i recomend starting a tank up and trying it for yourself, There are quite a few good reviews for Safestart, along with Biospira (which is no longer sold IIRC) it is the only product that actually works (Ive also heard of 2 other products tha work but theyre VERY EXPENSIVE) One is nitrosomonos in a bottle and the other is nitrospira is a bottle

lol, if only! many people on here have tried these products. the general forum attitude to them, comes from experience.

the bacteria is held in stasis using funky chemicals or something

not true, unfortunately. there are some "live" cultures (refrigerated) on sale. and indeed, they "seem" to work. anything dried or unrefrigerated (lol even with "funky" chem), appear to be placebic.

still my main question is. why is 14-20 days too long to wait for your cycle? ok i know, i already have my tank. but i had to cycle it first. am i the only one who has a sense of achievement every time a cycle is complete. i don't think i am a "Luddite", i embrace new tech and ideas everyday. but i do ask them all to work, before doing so.

 

[craig855s]

continued water tests still show 0 ammonia and nitrite so i increased stocking again today. 5 more harlequins and 2 female guppies. Along with an anubia plant (and some fertilising ball things you stick under the sand amongst the roots of the plants)

Should definately see a mini cycle for this stocking increase. Lets see how much of a "mini" cycle it is (as you guys are all claiming my cycle has not even begun..which i refuse to believe since the filter has now been exposed to an ammonia source [liquid ammonia then ever increasing numbers of fish] for a month now) but i reckon in a week it'll be all zeros again and ready for yet another increase.

 

[waterdrop]

I had not actually read this thread but now that I have it strikes me that this cycle seems all about a big tank with very few fish! This is a more than 60 us gallon tank with a Tetratec ex1200 (ie. a -lot- of biomedia) and two additions of fish that are a small fraction of the system capacity.

BBB and OM47 have a lot more experience than me with large tanks and could correct me but the feeling I get is that its going to be hard to see "feedback" like minispikes or some of our usual kinds of numbers with this sort of ratio. In "fish-in" cycling there -is- going to be an effect from larger water volume (per fishload) and larger media volume I think, its going to soak up some of the visibility of small amounts of ammonia or nitrite that the current bacterial colonies didn't process. Or perhaps we should think about the little time periods involved - with a larger volume of tank (both water and substrate) there's just going to be a little more time before our little bits of excess would be concentrated enough to measure and within that time it would also me easier (in my mind anyway) for a few more clusters of new bacterial colony to get established in the abundant biomedia, next to already established clusters. I don't know, maybe I'm way off base but to me this thread seems to be more about small amounts of fish to large amounts of water and media volume.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[craig855s]

So, if i am indeed in a "fish in cycle" then fish in cycles with few fish in a large tank is not to be frowned upon as the fish are not exposed to any ammonia and nitrite...

Water tests this afternoon show the tiniest amount of ammonia (not bright yellow but nothing like the 0.25 shade of green We'll see how this continues to increase/decrease through the week.

As for the "low level of stocking comments" i am now up to 21 fish,average of about an inch so lets say im 30% of the 1 inch per gallon rule

 

[raptorrex]

So, if i am indeed in a "fish in cycle" then fish in cycles with few fish in a large tank is not to be frowned upon as the fish are not exposed to any ammonia and nitrite...

Water tests this afternoon show the tiniest amount of ammonia (not bright yellow but nothing like the 0.25 shade of green We'll see how this continues to increase/decrease through the week.

As for the "low level of stocking comments" i am now up to 21 fish,average of about an inch so lets say im 30% of the 1 inch per gallon rule

perhaps not "frowned upon", more something to be avoided. and yes, the fish will be "exposed" to ammonia. its the major problem with "fish in cycle". you only have enough bacteria, to process the waste from the fish, used of the cycle. other fish need added slowly. and to be honest, 21 fish is way too many, especially as 10 days, is nothing like long enough for any tank to cycle. perhaps the worst aspect of these "bottled cycle" products, is they encourage people to add fish, way before the cycle has completed.

 

[craig855s]

So, if i am indeed in a "fish in cycle" then fish in cycles with few fish in a large tank is not to be frowned upon as the fish are not exposed to any ammonia and nitrite...

Water tests this afternoon show the tiniest amount of ammonia (not bright yellow but nothing like the 0.25 shade of green We'll see how this continues to increase/decrease through the week.

As for the "low level of stocking comments" i am now up to 21 fish,average of about an inch so lets say im 30% of the 1 inch per gallon rule

perhaps not "frowned upon", more something to be avoided. and yes, the fish will be "exposed" to ammonia. its the major problem with "fish in cycle". you only have enough bacteria, to process the waste from the fish, used of the cycle. other fish need added slowly. and to be honest, 21 fish is way too many, especially as 10 days, is nothing like long enough for any tank to cycle. perhaps the worst aspect of these "bottled cycle" products, is they encourage people to add fish, way before the cycle has completed.

there werent 21 fish added by day 10, they were added gradually.its now been a full month since the tank was set up and there has not once been an ammonia reading above 0 (apart from the .25 that was left in the tank after liquid ammonia dosing,and that was processed within 12 hours so the first 4 fish were exposed to it only for a night, and there is some ammonia in the water now but its nowhere near .25 It may even be zero and the dull light outside is making it look less "bright yellow" than it did before this addition