Refusal Of The Overstocking Rule.

[dfield]

I think people would class my tank as over stocked

I have a 170L , its classed as a 180L but actual water volume is 170L

in it I have

2 x Molly (about 2.5 inches)
2 x Platy (about 2.5 inches)
1 x Gourami (about 5 inches)
1 x Loach (about 5 inches)
2 x Pictus (about 5 inches)
2 x Rams (1 inch)
2 x Cory (1.5 inch)
2 x Kribs (2 inch)
4 x Guppy (1.5 inch)

42 inches of fish..

They all seem happy but I am looking for a bigger tank actually, because all the bigger fish seem to do a couple of flicks of their tails and they are at one or other end of the tank.. Also, one of the kribs and one of the rams are a bit territorial and they arent even paired up.

There is plently of space in the tank and some spend most of their time in the top half of the tank and the pictus tend to sleep in the day and are more mobile at night when the rest sleep. So they dont interfere with each other much, but I could definitely see trouble if I had a male and female krib rather than 2 females.. seeing what they are like, I think they'd need a tank all of their own.

I am pretty new to this but I watch the fish a lot and I think it should be down to common sense and also your own personal fish... my other krib for example is called "friendly" and she really is.. she is a lovely peaceful fish who keeps herself to herself and doesn't cause any trouble. "Nibbles" on the other hand.. well her name speaks for itself!!! (my daughter named them all by the way!)

 

[KittyKat]

When my hubby gets home I will post a pic of him and show ya'll my mutant! I should probably try to get one with him next to Bloke who is my largest angel for size comparison, huh?

It's unlikely to be a hybrid, I think… there are 126 species of true gouramis (+ kissing gouramis and 34 species of climbing gourami/perch) so there are a lot of fish it could be! Photo would be very useful, could it be Trichogaster fasciata or Trichogaster labiosa? Those two have similar colour to dwarf gouramis, but grow much larger.

Oh and no go on re-arranging the caves. they are permanently set.

This is probably the reason you're having trouble adding the loaches… their territories are… "set".

 

[KittyKat]

I think people would class my tank as over stocked

I think "poorly stocked is more appropriate": where are the schools for the schooling/shoaling fish? How do you expect the rams to do in hard water or the livebearers to do in soft water (whichever yours is)? What about the livebearers: do you keep only males of all species? Or how do you account that males will harass females cross-species?

The length per volume guidelines are very poor as it is, but you're not even using yours properly! The guidelines are based on adult size, not current size. If you really want to use it, the numbers would look closer to…:

Spoiler

2 x Molly (8 inches)
2 x Platy (3-4 inches)
1 x Gourami (5 inches) - species?
1 x Loach (5 inches) - species? schooling, keep 6+
2 x Pictus (5 inches) - shoaling, keep in groups
2 x Rams (3-4 inch)
2 x Cory (2 inch) - species? schooling, keep 6+
2 x Kribs (7 inch)
4 x Guppy (6-8 inch)

You have at least 44 inches of fish, not 42, but more likely close to 50 and if you get your schooling fish into the groups they should be, then you would have 73 inches and possibly up to 80 inches.

And finally, what happens when the pictus starts eating the guppies and platys? Pictus are predators.

 

[Vin Swords]

First rule of stocking fish is.. U keep fish to thrive not survive. Second rule is using Basic common sence.

If you have to ask someone to advise on stocking your own tank, it's means you have go back to square one.. The Internet..

Pa.. My tank is fairly over stocked.. But even a pair of wild discus thrive in there..

 

[Dieses Madchen]

I have a 40g tank.

6 x platy females
2 x swordtail males
1 x platy male
4 x albino cory (plans to add more. the lfs had no more)
5 x 3 mos old platy juvies (soon to rehome)
5 x 1 mos old platy juvies (soon to rehome)
1 x Albino BN pleco

 

[dfield]

I think "poorly stocked is more appropriate": where are the schools for the schooling/shoaling fish? How do you expect the rams to do in hard water or the livebearers to do in soft water (whichever yours is)? What about the livebearers: do you keep only males of all species? Or how do you account that males will harass females cross-species?

And finally, what happens when the pictus starts eating the guppies and platys? Pictus are predators.

I actually bought this tank with the fish already in it, apart from the Mollys, the mollys/platys are female only the guppies are male. You are correct the males harrass the females, but only the platys they leave the mollies alone.

Our water is naturally hard here and I bought the tank locally so I am assuming they have always been in relatively hard, quite alkaline water. The girl I bought it off only had a PH tester in her fish stuff, so I am also assuming that's all she ever tested for. Whether she'd had some problems and decided to sell the tank, I am not sure, she never said.

It is a new hobby for me and I didn't know anything about which fish liked which water so I have made a chart and listed down each fishes preference..

I only got this tank because my son was bought a small 32L tank by his grandma and the 2 mollies we had in it had babies on day 2 we had them, and they started to eat them... so I thought it would be a bright idea to buy another.. didnt really understand the implications of buying a tank with the fish already in it, didnt know anything about the fish in it...

I actually really wish I'd never bought a tank with fish in because when you start reading, looking on forums etc about the fish and then having to learn about all the problems/compatibility.. especially if, like I had to .. treat them for Ich.. it has been an absolute nightmare.

So now I need to get another "bigger" tank to sort out the problems with this tank...

I've been looking anyway and the one I have seems to be far too small for the catfish and loach - any suggestions on how I could re-tank them before I get into another mess that needs more sorting??? At the moment I have:

1 x 32L
1 x 180L

I'd like to have
1 x newborn baby tank for the Molly's and Platys (32L)
1 x interim baby tank (we have agreed already with a really good LFS to take the babies once old enough for them to sell)180L???
1 x Larger tank, for the kribs, rams, catfish, gourami (blue),albino pleco (I forgot that one - very peaceful but all other fish do move out of its way) and Loach??? possible??? what about the corys (julii), they are only tiny??

Are there any of these fish I have that really wouldnt fit into this setup, that I should try to rehome? Both the Clown Loach and the Corys, do seem happy and none of them hide away because they don't have schooling mates..the loach was worse when there were the two of them (sadly one died of the ich I mentioned) now the loach is out all the time and really inquisitive.. I really don't want any more catfish..

In terms of agression/predatory behaviour, I have only seen that from one of the kribs (both female) .. all the other fish seem really placid. Mind you I did feed the fish a block of frozen bloodworms the other day and the catfish came out and took the lot in one swoop.

 

[KittyKat]

Our water is naturally hard here and I bought the tank locally so I am assuming they have always been in relatively hard, quite alkaline water. The girl I bought it off only had a PH tester in her fish stuff, so I am also assuming that's all she ever tested for.

This is good as hard to soft water is more problematic, although the hard water is not great for your soft water fish, but acceptable.

I've been looking anyway and the one I have seems to be far too small for the catfish and loach - any suggestions on how I could re-tank them before I get into another mess that needs more sorting???

What is your loach? For example, clown loaches grow to a whooping 16 inches, while yoyo loaches stay relatively small at 6 inches. Your clown loaches should have a 6+*2*2 ft tank in the long run. What is your pleco? (Albino) common plecos an grow anywhere from 12 to 24 inches, while (albino) bristlenoses remain small at 4-6 inches. The larger species of both fish can need a 6 ft tank or longer (another option would be to find them a new home), while the smaller species can do well in a 4 ft tank. Tank sizes are all about dimentions, not volume

1 x interim baby tank (we have agreed already with a really good LFS to take the babies once old enough for them to sell)180L???

Anything from a 80-90*30*30 cm tank would be good to grow out molly fry.

1 x Larger tank, for the kribs, rams, catfish, gourami (blue),albino pleco (I forgot that one - very peaceful but all other fish do move out of its way) and Loach??? possible???

It doesn't matter how large the tank is, your smaller fish can not be safely housed with the pictus.

what about the corys (julii), they are only tiny??

What about them? Either they are babies or stunted, the most you can do is home that it's the first because adults will grow to over 2 inches long.

Both the Clown Loach and the Corys, do seem happy and none of them hide away because they don't have schooling mates..the loach was worse when there were the two of them (sadly one died of the ich I mentioned) now the loach is out all the time and really inquisitive.. I really don't want any more catfish..

How can you tell? You have never seen them in a decent group. I can tell you now that I have seen both species in small and large groups, and the difference is huge.
If you can not provide the right environment for them, please find them a new home.

In terms of agression/predatory behaviour, I have only seen that from one of the kribs (both female) .. all the other fish seem really placid. Mind you I did feed the fish a block of frozen bloodworms the other day and the catfish came out and took the lot in one swoop.

I bet some of your fish are the size of that bloodworm block. How do you know it won't be one of them next time? Aggression is not always a permanent thing, it can also be a "I came home to find half my fish murdered, even though they've been fine together for 5 years" thing. I have seen this sort of thing happen, take my experience and use it to the benefit of your fish.

 

[dfield]

Firstly I apologise for my rubbish use of quotes.. I have an error message on the quotes but cant seem to fix it!

What is your loach? For example, clown loaches grow to a whooping 16 inches, while yoyo loaches stay relatively small at 6 inches. Your clown loaches should have a 6+*2*2 ft tank in the long run. What is your pleco? (Albino) common plecos an grow anywhere from 12 to 24 inches, while (albino) bristlenoses remain small at 4-6 inches. The larger species of both fish can need a 6 ft tank or longer (another option would be to find them a new home), while the smaller species can do well in a 4 ft tank. Tank sizes are all about dimentions, not volume

We have quite a lot of space here so I am looking for a longer tank, yes I read up about that and am on the lookout now. The Loach is a Clown, I really enjoy this fish, so I think if anything I'd like to have a bigger tank and have more of them in there. I am not sure about the Pleco, I think it may be a common pleco, it is quite small at the moment.

1 x interim baby tank (we have agreed already with a really good LFS to take the babies once old enough for them to sell)180L???

Anything from a 80-90*30*30 cm tank would be good to grow out molly fry.

great that fits in with my plan

ead

1 x Larger tank, for the kribs, rams, catfish, gourami (blue),albino pleco (I forgot that one - very peaceful but all other fish do move out of its way) and Loach??? possible???

It doesn't matter how large the tank is, your smaller fish can not be safely housed with the pictus.

Do you mean any of the smaller fish.. what about the rams, Kribs, I know I the Kribs see guppies as a delicacy and so I didnt plan long term to keep them with them What about if I kept the guppies, platys and molly babies in together..


Funnily enough (or not) the day after I left my post here, the pictus had a swipe at one of the guppies.. it was half hearted and the guppy was really quick.. but I see the problem. I have been feeding the bloodworm in the evening and the pictus eat most of it and look quite full, maybe thats why they havent been more focussed on the chase.

what about the corys (julii), they are only tiny??

What about them? Either they are babies or stunted, the most you can do is home that it's the first because adults will grow to over 2 inches long.

I think they are babies, they seem pretty small. I have a feeling that these were relatively new additions, when we bought the tank the water was really cloudy, we've since replaced both the heater and the filter as they were faulty so I suspect thats why she sold it.

Both the Clown Loach and the Corys, do seem happy and none of them hide away because they don't have schooling mates..the loach was worse when there were the two of them (sadly one died of the ich I mentioned) now the loach is out all the time and really inquisitive.. I really don't want any more catfish..

How can you tell? You have never seen them in a decent group. I can tell you now that I have seen both species in small and large groups, and the difference is huge.

I don't know really, to be honest, just observations and comparing the loaches behaviour to when we had the two.. mind you I think they were both sick because of the move and the white spot.. they literally both tried to squash into any tiny space.. up the side of the filter..in the roof of a cave where they really couldnt fit.. just trying to bury themselves away... it was actually quite distressing to watch!! from what I saw before, its such a marked difference.. at feeding time he comes out and hovers around waiting.. today I fed them some daphnia and he was hovering here and there as if to say where are my bloodworms!

In terms of agression/predatory behaviour, I have only seen that from one of the kribs (both female) .. all the other fish seem really placid. Mind you I did feed the fish a block of frozen bloodworms the other day and the catfish came out and took the lot in one swoop.

I bet some of your fish are the size of that bloodworm block. How do you know it won't be one of them next time? Aggression is not always a permanent thing, it can also be a "I came home to find half my fish murdered, even though they've been fine together for 5 years" thing. I have seen this sort of thing happen, take my experience and use it to the benefit of your fish.

Thank you, I will.. now I know the tank is definitely white spot free I have a few more options.. even with a bigger tank I really dont want to be worrying about those two.. I really didnt appreciate just how predatory they are.. I mean even my mollies would eat their babies and the bigger babies tried eating my smaller babies.. its a fishes life I guess

 

[dfield]

Sorry I did hijack this post.. I didn't mean to it kinda evolved

 

[This Old Spouse]

Sorry I did hijack this post.. I didn't mean to it kinda evolved

Oh, it happens! Lots.

 

[KittyKat]

Firstly I apologise for my rubbish use of quotes.. I have an error message on the quotes but cant seem to fix it!

I think you did quite well overall

We have quite a lot of space here so I am looking for a longer tank, yes I read up about that and am on the lookout now. The Loach is a Clown, I really enjoy this fish, so I think if anything I'd like to have a bigger tank and have more of them in there. I am not sure about the Pleco, I think it may be a common pleco, it is quite small at the moment.

That's great, because my biggest problem, when starting out, was lack of space, which restricted me to smaller tanks… you wouldn't believe how great it is to not have to worry about it!

What about if I kept the guppies, platys and molly babies in together..

Guppies and platys may have a go at the molly fry, but the fry stand a higher chance of survival than guppy or platy fry. It all depends on how well the tank is planted and how well fed your fish are. To be honest, if it was my tank, I would probably use the 180 for all your livebearers and add some extra plants so the females feel better at birthing.

Do you mean any of the smaller fish.. what about the rams, Kribs, I know I the Kribs see guppies as a delicacy and so I didnt plan long term to keep them with them […] Funnily enough (or not) the day after I left my post here, the pictus had a swipe at one of the guppies.. it was half hearted and the guppy was really quick.. but I see the problem. I have been feeding the bloodworm in the evening and the pictus eat most of it and look quite full, maybe thats why they havent been more focussed on the chase.

Remember: anything which can fit into its mouth, will fit into its mouth. Going back to your original stock list, the gourami, pleco, loach and pictus are compatible, but I can't make guesses about the rest mixing with pictus. The other fish are also compatible between themselves, although kribs are always a wildcard as to whether they'll try to shred the rest of the tank.

when we bought the tank the water was really cloudy, we've since replaced both the heater and the filter as they were faulty so I suspect thats why she sold it.

Milky cloudy? Probably mini-cycle and bacterial bloom. Just to be sure, did you move all the media over from the old filter to the new, to avoid a cycle/mini-cycle?

I don't know really, to be honest, just observations and comparing the loaches behaviour to when we had the two.. mind you I think they were both sick because of the move and the white spot.. they literally both tried to squash into any tiny space.. up the side of the filter..in the roof of a cave where they really couldnt fit.. just trying to bury themselves away... it was actually quite distressing to watch!! from what I saw before, its such a marked difference.. at feeding time he comes out and hovers around waiting.. today I fed them some daphnia and he was hovering here and there as if to say where are my bloodworms!

This is normal behaviour for clown loaches: in an ideal tank, you would have a group of at least 10 packing themselves like sardines into a cave, but also coming out to play and feed. If you don't have any caves already, I recommend you add a few PVC pipes to the tank as a temporary solution: the loach and pleco would benefit from these. The best indicator for clown loaches' state of stress (note: not happiness) is their colour.

Thank you, I will.. now I know the tank is definitely white spot free I have a few more options.. even with a bigger tank I really dont want to be worrying about those two.. I really didnt appreciate just how predatory they are.. I mean even my mollies would eat their babies and the bigger babies tried eating my smaller babies.. its a fishes life I guess

Heh, well, that is exactly why they have so many babies: survival of the fittest and all that stuff.

 

[Moonlit]

Something no one has mentioned is how many plants are in the tank as well? I've seen tanks with so many plants that there is barely any room for the fish to swim about. Some people's tanks look like terrariums with a little water poured in. In the wild plants are not necessarily that dense below the surface.

 

[Dieses Madchen]

Something no one has mentioned is how many plants are in the tank as well? I've seen tanks with so many plants that there is barely any room for the fish to swim about. Some people's tanks look like terrariums with a little water poured in. In the wild plants are not necessarily that dense below the surface.

Plants do not really restrict the swimming capability of the fish. In the wild, plants act as camoflauge from predators and such, as well as peaceful places to play. Even in heavily planted tanks, fish are free swimming...just sometimes they are hard to see by us! lol

 

[Mikaila31]

I wouldn't bet on that. I use to have a pair of large angels in my Hi-tech 55 gallon. They often got stuck when I would let the tank get too overgrown. Its when they would be stuck in one area of the tank for a few days that I would go and remove a couple pounds of plants . Regardless though I don't think it bothered them that much, they may not of been able to move around as much as the smaller fish, but they still spawned a few times. One thing that makes live plants different then most other things in the tank is the fish interact with them much more readily. Most fish don't mind making physical contact with plants. My emperor tetras always try and get the food that falls in the java moss. They will go so far in that all you can see is their tail.

 

[KittyKat]

I also find that fish benefit from plants, but I have never tried large fish with plants dense enough that they couldn't swim, although smaller fish didn't seem to be bothered by the obstacles.