Am I overstocking? Mixed signals

[ItsWhat21]

Hi everyone, I currently have a 75 gallon cycling. My wife and I came up with the below list based on research and talking at the local fish store. However, I’m seeing mixed messages on whether this is overstocking or not. Some people say 2 angels is the limit for a 75 gallon, others say 8-10 is okay. We are using an FX2 filter with extra bio media, 2x 200 watt heaters on an Inkbird, and 2 air stones with a 48 inch LED. The tank is moderately planted and we plan to add more (think bacopa and swords with some dwarf sag).

I appreciate any advice or comments.

Fish to Purchase:
• Angelfish – 4-5
• Electric Blue Acara – 1-2
• Congo Tetras - 7-9
• Denison Barbs – 6-8
• Bristlenose Pleco – 1-2
• Corydoras Catfish (Pandas?) – 10-12

 

[CaptainBarnicles]

May I kindly recommend you do not listen to everything the fish store tells you! At the end of the day they want your money and a lot of the time will tell you what you want to hear to make a sale. Many, many and most of us here have all fallen victim to store advice and suffered the consequences. Some of us here have been fish keepers for decades, successful breeders, and some really are experts in their field so if there's anything you need to know, this is the place to find your answers!

You have a huge tank so you've got plenty of options, but my first piece of advice which is critical in my opinion, is find out the hardness of your local water. You can either test it yourself with your own test kit (API is popular, I use NT labs) or you can check your water provider's website for your area. Depending on whether you have hard or soft water would determine which fish would be suitable to suggest.

Also bear in mind that denison barbs get quite big, 9cm or so if I'm not mistaken, they feel safest in big groups and they're speedy so need lots of room. If they're something you want to keep, you may not have much room for a lot else!

Electric blue acara are gorgeous but won't do well in a planted tank, at least not in my experience. They have lots of character and will quickly decide they don't like the decor and redecorate themselves.

Look at a website called Seriously Fish...brilliant resource

 

[GaryE]

Angel stocking is interesting. While many can disagree with me, I go back a long way with them.My experience say 8-10 angels in a 75 would work for a few months. Once they reach sexual maturity, you would need half a dozen other tanks, or the ability to watch things that could have seen saved die. They live in large groups in nature, but nature isn't four foot long. They can be brutal.
Both sets of advice are correct, but one is very short term and temporary, and that isn't usually mentioned.
Fish to Purchase:
• Angelfish – 4-5
• Electric Blue Acara – 1-2
• Congo Tetras - 7-9
• Denison Barbs – 6-8
• Bristlenose Pleco – 1-2
• Corydoras Catfish (Pandas?) – 10-12
[/QUOTE]

Again, you are getting a personal response here, but I never combine Corydoras with Cichlids that claim the bottom as their territory. Electric blue acaras are an interesting mess genetically, and they are generally peaceful for a Cichlid their size. Generally - not always. They will stress the Corys. You are bound to have posts saying that's okay, that people do it and it works, and it may not result in deaths. It won't result in good lives.

Beware of 2 bristlenoses. Get a pair, and you will have hundreds.

A lot of online sources support temporary stocking - things that will end in disaster, but with the end a few months away. Short term thinking kills a lot of fish, and drives good people out of the hobby. Never look at a fish now and buy it if you haven't researched its maximum size. Unless you are a lousy fishkeeper, it will get there. Never say you'll buy a bigger a tank when that happens. Choose fish for what you have now. The tank won't grow with them.

There's a tension between keeping fish as ornamental expendable objects, and keeping fish as cool fish. You have to choose your approach and keep it in mind when you talk to people. They can have the opposite philosophy to yours, but they always assume you think like them. I'm an extreme with fish needs first person. My favourite 75 has 3 smallish Cichlids, 3 Ancistrus and 8 2 inch tetras. That is light stocking and I could double or even triple the tetras, as they don't compete for turf with the Cichlids. But I'm speaking as someone who stocks lightly, after 58 years of keeping fish.

 

[Oldspartan]

As a beginner on the road to being an intermediate --- I have a tendency to think about overstocking when I do a tank. After asking here, doing online research, and referring to books, I find my eyes are bigger than my glass box and adjust accordingly.

Now, bearing in mind I do not qualify as an expert, the list looks like a disaster waiting to happen. I think Gary is spot on when he says the keeper needs to have an idea of ornamental living decor, or fish health first. I do believe that with careful research you can have both but there will be compromise involved.

Again, we only have a year under our belt so take anything I say with a very large grain of something.

Wishing you luck, it is an interesting journey.

 

[ItsWhat21]

Angel stocking is interesting. While many can disagree with me, I go back a long way with them.My experience say 8-10 angels in a 75 would work for a few months. Once they reach sexual maturity, you would need half a dozen other tanks, or the ability to watch things that could have seen saved die. They live in large groups in nature, but nature isn't four foot long. They can be brutal.
Both sets of advice are correct, but one is very short term and temporary, and that isn't usually mentioned.
Fish to Purchase:
• Angelfish – 4-5
• Electric Blue Acara – 1-2
• Congo Tetras - 7-9
• Denison Barbs – 6-8
• Bristlenose Pleco – 1-2
• Corydoras Catfish (Pandas?) – 10-12

Again, you are getting a personal response here, but I never combine Corydoras with Cichlids that claim the bottom as their territory. Electric blue acaras are an interesting mess genetically, and they are generally peaceful for a Cichlid their size. Generally - not always. They will stress the Corys. You are bound to have posts saying that's okay, that people do it and it works, and it may not result in deaths. It won't result in good lives.

Beware of 2 bristlenoses. Get a pair, and you will have hundreds.

A lot of online sources support temporary stocking - things that will end in disaster, but with the end a few months away. Short term thinking kills a lot of fish, and drives good people out of the hobby. Never look at a fish now and buy it if you haven't researched its maximum size. Unless you are a lousy fishkeeper, it will get there. Never say you'll buy a bigger a tank when that happens. Choose fish for what you have now. The tank won't grow with them.

There's a tension between keeping fish as ornamental expendable objects, and keeping fish as cool fish. You have to choose your approach and keep it in mind when you talk to people. They can have the opposite philosophy to yours, but they always assume you think like them. I'm an extreme with fish needs first person. My favourite 75 has 3 smallish Cichlids, 3 Ancistrus and 8 2 inch tetras. That is light stocking and I could double or even triple the tetras, as they don't compete for turf with the Cichlids. But I'm speaking as someone who stocks lightly, after 58 years of keeping fish.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks so much for your input. Our priority is definitely fish well-being. I didn’t know that about Corys and wasn’t sold on them anyways. It sounds like the Denison’s will be too big regardless. So would better stocking look something like:

Angel - 3 or 4
EBA - 1
Congo Tetra - 10-12
Bristlenose - 1

Not sure if we should do a larger school of tetras or two smaller schools. Would something like some Kuhli loaches work with this tank?

 

[GaryE]

The approach I argue is based on fish orientation, for lack of a better word. We can get fish that orient to the bottom, to the mid and to the surface. The reason I'd argue against either Corys or acara is they are bottom fish. Corys are not territorial (except for rare and expensive Scleromystax you'd have to go looking for). Acaras are. Loaches aren't but they are hyper and would drive some tankmates mad.

So at issue is turf. My vision is that if the bottom is shared (and that's where territory matters), then the fish have to be equally tough. Acaras are much larger and more robust than Corys or loaches.

Try this. When I set up a tank, I choose one fish. It's the one I really want in there the most. That lets me build a community around it, as well as to build a decor for its needs. What's your favourite fish idea for your new tank?

 

[Magnum Man]

my experience with "angels" has not been good, and after trying many, I never did get a pair... and I was forced to watch a lot of murdering... even a sibling pair. that started out the size of a quarter, were fine for a little over one year, then a slow torture began, and I had to move one... I now have two display tanks, that amoung other fish, include one angel, and one silver dollar as a companion fish to the angel, I have common silver dollars in a different tank, but chose a tiger and a spotted silver dollar, for companions in the tanks with one angel... that seems to be working exceptionally well...
I love Denison's, and they are easier to keep than indicated above ( your angels, will likely get as big as the Denison's ), but Denison's are a cool water fish, I know a lot of people keep them at tropical temps , but they really belong in a cool water tank. where the other fish on your list would not be happy...
I like my electric blue acaras, but as @GaryE ... indicated above they are not natural, and because I have 3, I've been watching them, in the hobby the ones currently available are not as colorful, as mine, which were purchased after about a year, after they appeared, so to me ( not knowing how they were created ) they don't seem stable, like a lot of what made them appealing, is changing each year they are in the hobby... the colors on mine haven't faded, but appears to be "washing" out each generation as they are bred...

as to the title of your thread...I have a tendency to over stock my tanks, but also over filter, and aerate, which makes it work for me... so it depends on your set up... with enough filter your original stocking level "could" be Ok with the right fish... but if you were just running a sponge filter and nothing else, that is likely too much fish for long term survival...

 

[Boundava]

Hi everyone, I currently have a 75 gallon cycling. My wife and I came up with the below list based on research and talking at the local fish store. However, I’m seeing mixed messages on whether this is overstocking or not. Some people say 2 angels is the limit for a 75 gallon, others say 8-10 is okay. We are using an FX2 filter with extra bio media, 2x 200 watt heaters on an Inkbird, and 2 air stones with a 48 inch LED. The tank is moderately planted and we plan to add more (think bacopa and swords with some dwarf sag).

I appreciate any advice or comments.

Fish to Purchase:
• Angelfish – 4-5
• Electric Blue Acara – 1-2
• Congo Tetras - 7-9
• Denison Barbs – 6-8
• Bristlenose Pleco – 1-2
• Corydoras Catfish (Pandas?) – 10-12

I know many have replied already but here is my $0.02.

Angelfish- 4-5 juvis will be OK till they pair up and then if you don't remove the others the pair will damage/kill them. Tank of that size doesn't give them space for territory.

Blue acara- due to breeding these aren't healthy (as mentioned-a genetic mess), also they may fight with the angels (cichlids). We had one with cory and he was fine, but didn't live long due to the genetics.

Congos - should be OK, they get to be 3.5" and are very active. I never had luck with them, but that's a me issue, lol.

Denison barbs- they get big, are active and prefer cooler flowing waters. I would recommend a 125 or equally big and long tank and cooler water fish. You can get other, slightly smaller barbs, but be careful as they may eat your plants or nip the congos.

BN pleco - you can do 2 if you get females. As someone said a male and female will result in breeding as they are one of the easiest plecos to breed. Two males will probably fight, my guy was always ready to take down anything resembling him (so long as it wasn't a female). My guy was relatively big 7" albino. Lived to 17 years and bred thousands of babies.

Cory- (panda) good number, you can go 12-16 as they are relatively small for cory. They are peaceful and get along well with pretty much everything including the pleco. You can also mix it up and add another cory group in the same #'s

If you don't get angels you can add some smaller tetras to the tank like black neon, blue neon or cardinals. Adult angels may predate on the smaller tetras.

Let us know what you decide, planning a new tank is always exciting.

I used to make a spreadsheet so I can compare water parameters to make sure they are compatible... ok some people's version of fun are different that others, lol.

 

[Uberhoust]

I am currently keeping 6 angelfish in a 75 gallon tank, but other than an errant ember tetra that is all that is in the tank. All my fish are related to each other and are the result of various breedings I have had about 3 or 4 years ago. I was keeping 8 angels in the tank, with one larger male that kept everything in order. But, the fish are still growing but slower now and some of the males have started to challenge the current dominating male and things are not going as smoothly. Two angels were found dead in my tank after a 2 1/2 week absence, I suspect because I wasn't around to change the water the various pheromones (this is a guess) became more prevalent resulting in the deaths, I am not sure about this though because both fish did not have much in the way of defensive marks on their skin. With 6 angels in the tank they have a lot more room but every breeding attempt splits the tank in half with the breeding pair keeping the others confined to the other half of the tank. Additionally one of the angels I have has congenital deformities but is getting larger and challenging the dominant male, I may have to remove him to keep the peace.

Additionally, when establishing my angels I had a lot of issues keeping more than 2 adults in a tank, eventually there would be fighting, but having a juvenile, related, group seemed to lessen the aggression quite a bit, but during the first few years I was always moving adult angels from one tank to another to keep them happy, a third angel fish added to the 75 gallon tank would always cause issues.

To get to my point, I really think that for a tank that is going to have other fish species you are best to keep a single pair in your tank. I haven't had any issues keeping a male and female in a single tank, they seemed the happiest with that configuration.

 

[bgarthe]

I realize this was started in Feb and you probably already have your tank up and running, but that original stocking list was way overstocked imo. I think GaryE said it best….start out with one fish you really like and build from there. Toss in 8 CoryCats you like and one of the other groups to get going. 5 adult angelfish alone would make things “interesting” and potentially tense. 9 Congo Tets would be VERY active indeed and Dennisons get pretty big. A 75g tank is wonderful, but it, too, has limitations. Lastly….the larger your bio load, the more work you’ll have to do.
Oh…..someone mentioned (I think it was CaptainBarnicles) that your tank and tap water parameters such as hardness (among others) need to be clearly understood/tested first and foremost.

 

[MuddyWaters]

I bought 12 angels from angelmania.net a couple or 3 years ago. They were the size of a quarter when I got them (I only ordered 6, but they sent me 12). I kept them until they were almost mature. I did some stupid stuff with the PH trying to get better plant growth and killed a few and others I took to the club to auction off. They started picking at each other. I ended up with 3 because I couldn't catch one- I had an established pair and another one. The pair ended up killing the 3rd one over time.

I think you could keep more than 2, but it depends on if they get along. I think if I had 2 pairs, they might have worked out ok, but the 3rd one kept trying insert himself into the pair and they were having none of it.

 

[Back in the fold]

I had an established pair and another one. The pair ended up killing the 3rd one over time.

Angelfish can be holy terrors ! Everybody likes them and everybody thinks they’re pretty , and they are , but what monsters they can be ! You never know either because they all seem to have their own unique personality .