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Possibly Sterile Female? Wasting Disease? Worms?

Discussion in 'Tropical Fish Emergencies' started by Vengified, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    So, I have a female guppy whom appears different than the rest of my females. She has always been blonde, and always appeared slightly different than the rest. But the others purchased with her, and a couple after her, are all visibly pregnant, with a couple about to pop any day now. I was informed about a possible illness, and as such, am posting in here to get advice, and keep post relevant to title.

    The tank parameters, if I can remember all that is needed: A 20 gallon, planted with hornwort, java fern, water Sprite, and some broadleaf sort of long stem aquatic plant, and moss balls as well as some driftwood. Fluval Aquaclear 50, and UGF with MaxiJet 600, fully cycled, readings last night of 0/0/20, nitrates were 20ppm, did a 20% WC, PH of 8.0. Stocked with 5 male guppies, 12 female guppies, 3 otocinclus, 2 ghost shrimp, and I dont know how many RCS (breeding quite well, though havent sighted any berries for a while, but still seeing new babies lol). Feed multiple flake types, color crisps, omega one pellets, emerald entree frozen food and freeze dried bloodworms on occasion, as well as some algae seaweed sheets and fresh blanched spinach on occasion. No other fish show the same symptoms, or any symptoms whatsoever, other than being super pregnant. Oh, and petco recently tested water, same parameters, and said my hardness is 300, not sure because I dont have a hardness test myself.

    Pics below (note, she was approximately 2 inches below the center of the fluorescent light for most of these pictures, so everything is slightly exaggerated, tried to get a less direct picture without success) :

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  2. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    I like blondes and she's pretty hot. Hey I'm a fish, look at my avatar ;)

    She looks fine :)

    She could just be a young fish and none of the males have bred with her because she hasn't developed eggs. But she appears to have eggs now. Picture 4, 5 & 6 she looks like she has eggs, yellow patch under her swim bladder.

    She does not appear to have Microsporidian disease :)
     
    #2 Colin_T, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
    • Funny Funny x 1
  3. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    It's a relief to hear she doesnt have wasting disease. Although she is just sitting at the top, hiding in the plants, all day today. Hasn't come out until I moved some of the plants and she came out. Other than that, just staying at the surface, hiding. Not gasping, and she is the only one.

    But, I did just put one of the boys in QT, for some unknown reason, he was just laying on the bottom of the tank. He was still breathing, and still would swim up when the other boys would start messing with him, and started to swim when I got the net in there, but he wasnt moving his tail fin at all before that. And when he would swim up, he would gradually sink back down after a few seconds. I checked all parameters, it's all good, temps good, filters running, everyone else is fine. And now in QT, he is actually near the surface swimming. Maybe he was scared?
     
    #3 Vengified, Jun 5, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2018
  4. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    The male guppy in quarantine might have been getting bullied. The same thing might be happening to the blonde female guppy. If she is being bullied she will hide to avoid the others. Perhaps move her into quarantine as well and put some plants in, then monitor them. If they act normally in quarantine and don't hide anymore, then they are being picked on.
     
  5. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    Haha, I had already moved her. I noticed when I went to grab her, and then I first put her in, she was totally vertical. She was horizontal for a couple hours, mostly just sitting on the betta leaf bed thing I have put in there for her. I dont wanna make her lazy, but I want her to be comfortable. But now again, she is totally vertical. She will try to get her yauk up a little if I get her attention by moving finger in front of her, but it doesnt last.

    There are a couple fake plants, as well as floating hornwort and my unknown plant. A different unknown one than I had before, from a different store.

    The boy, "Knuckles" was back and forth for a couple hours, swimming, then laying on bottom of aquarium next to heater, then swimming some more. Now hes been laying next to the heater for about an hour and a half, with an occasional burst up to the surface, then he falls back down to a plant or the base of the aquarium. The heater in this tank is kind of messed up I think, so it gets up to about 82. I generally set a phone timer, and unplug it every couple of hours to keep it around 78-80.

    Now knuckles sees me, he is swimming around a bit. I dunno if its boredom, or he is having issues, his swimming seems to have a bit more of a wobble to it, and he doesnt seem to be able to stay up unless he is actively swimming, or if his tail is resting on something, other wise he falls to the bottom.

    He is a pretty guy too. Its kind of dark, but I'll put up some pics I just now took. Oh, and neither seem interested in food either, the girl just floats vertical, and the boy swam up, but then swam just under the surface, past all the food, then swam away and sank back down. ????

    I dunno why I keep having these problems?! I am SOOO OCD about parameters and quality and different foods, and blanching fresh veggies, almost like having more kids! I dont know what could be going wrong, other than weakened or defective fish to begin with, excluding of course the boy probably fighting, but I did get females to try and help the situation, and even though I did, the sick boy and my oldest original guppy just fight and try to mate all day, ignoring the females. I know 2:1 is minimum for F:M, so I got an extra couple for 2.4:1, and didnt add more, as to not overstock. If I'm missing something, let me know? As mentioned, and shown in pics in the other thread, shrimp are flourishing, and I was under the impression they are much more sensitive than guppies?

    Anyways, here is the pics:

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  6. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    Update for anyone interested:

    The blond female started deteriorating quickly. First I noticed she was kind of floating around, with the current. Although it is very very weak, she was getting pushed around, then would get right below filter output, get pushed down a little, then float back up and float the same route. After a few passes of this, she turned sideways, and breathing stopped. :byebye:

    No idea what or why or how? I had taken water out of main tank, and put directly into QT tank, with a filter floss that always sits in main tank filter, to keep bb on hand in case of this emergency.

    After I scooped her out, put her in a little clove water just to make sure, and put her in the freezer. Then I put some melafix in QT tank to see if it would help Knuckles liven up a bit. So far in the past half hour, he has increased activity IMMENSELY! So, hopefully he has just been stressed? I will keep a vigilant watch over him. Hopefully the blond didnt have some unseen deadly contagious virus, and pass it to him, or any of my other 15 guppies, Otos, or shrimps! :eek:
     
  7. Colin_T

    Colin_T Member

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    You have some weird stuff going on in your tank :)

    Assuming Petco is correct about your hardness being around 300ppm, that should not be an issue. However, getting a GH test kit or getting the hardness tested by another shop would confirm this once and for all. Besides GH you can ask the shop if they have salt in their guppy tanks and get the shop to ask their suppliers if they have salt in the guppy tanks.

    Find out what pH and GH the shop tanks are, and ask the shop if they can contact their supplier and find out what the pH and GH is at the shop's supplier. There shouldn't be any major difference in pH because suppliers try to keep their water close to 7.0 so there is less stress when the fish go somewhere else. But they might have softer water or might be keeping a heap of salt in their quarantine tanks and that is causing some issues when the fish go into the shop and then into your tank.

    Apart from GH and salt, all I can think of is you are getting dud fish. You could be getting fish that are genetically weak and are stressed out, and they are only lasting a short time in your tank before dying. This is highly probable just due to the fact guppies are weak from inbreeding, overcrowding and being grown up in pretty gross conditions in Asia.

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    Next time you go to buy more fish, find out when the fish actually came into the shop, and when the shop does its water changes. If you are getting fish that have recently come in, (within the last 48 hours) they will be stressed from handling and shipping, and should not be bought because they are still stressed. If the fish have been in the shop tank for a week or more, then they should have recovered from most of that moving stress and should be fine to purchase.

    If the shop has done a water change in the last 48 hours then that will also stress the fish, especially if they do a water change shortly after the new fish have come in. Then the new fish have to deal with shipping and handling and a water change. If the shop does their water changes 1 or 2 days before they get fish in, then water changes can be ruled out.
    Same deal with your tank at home, do a water change the day before you add new fish and don't do any more water changes until a week after they have been added.

    You could ask the shop to hold some fish for you in a spare tank or planted tank. You would probably have to pay for them first. But let them know you have been losing guppies and would like some, but you would like the shop to hold the fish for 2 weeks before you take them. This will give the fish a chance to settle down in the shop tanks and put on some condition before you take them home. If the shop can keep them in a plant tank without other fish, then that is even better.

    If the shop has their tanks on a recirculating system then they should all have the same water. But if their tanks are run as individual systems, they might have different water chemistry in each tank, possibly due to more fish or a substrate that is dropping the pH, or something else in the tank. You can get them to check the pH in the tanks they get the fish out of just to confirm there is no major difference in pH.

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    Quarantine any new fish for a month. This will prevent anything weird getting into your tank and if you buy new fish, only get them from one tank at the shop. If the fish are fine after one month in quarantine, then add to your main tank. Alternatively set up a second quarantine tank and if you get fish from 2 different tanks in the shop, have the shop bag them up separately and then they can go into their own quarantine tanks at your house.

    While the fish are being quarantined at your house, you should treat them for worms and gill flukes.

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    A good ratio for livebearers is at least 4 females per male, preferably more females.

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    re: the male guppy that is currently in quarantine, he looks to be in good shape so might just be more comfortable sitting on the bottom, but he should not have trouble staying buoyant in the water column, and should not sink down. It's unlikely to be water quality and I think you are just getting weak fish with genetic issues.
     
  8. Vengified

    Vengified Fish Fanatic

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    UPDATE: That Male deteriorated as well, and passed away, the next day, in front of my sons very eyes. We went to check on him, and try and feed him, and he was resting on the betta leaf, and after just a few minutes, he tipped sideways and sunk. I told my son he probably wouldn't make it, and would probably stop breathing soon. After he sank to the bottom, still on his side, my son watched intently, and got all excited and yelled "HES BREATHING DADDY! HES GONNA BE OK!" I Just humored him, and said "well see" but I didnt think he would make it. After taking my son to bed, about 20 minutes later, he had stopped breathing.


    All other fish are doing well, in fact, one of my females FINALLY dropped some fry. I am guessing it's the black mamba, the one female I've had the longest, as she is slightly slimmer. Whoever it was, dropped them sometime between 4pm and 7pm. I just noticed them, because I was going to do a water change, gravel vac some debris, and move some plants, but now I'm not sure.


    I actually started a new thread, as usual, just to keep the questions relevant to the title. If you fish wikipedia friends of mine @Colin_T and @seangee wanna check it out, I have some questions also about the new fry, and maintenance, as I intend to let nature take its course, in the main tank, and when they get bigger, I have three different ships that all will take them, so I dont get overcrowded, one of which, will actually let me trade as well, so I can try and keep the gene pool less inbred, as I would like to be able to replenish my own supply of guppies, without them turning into disease/deformity farms.


    Anyways, check this other thread out if you get a chance, also got pics of my tank, mostly finished, up:

    http://www.fishforums.net/threads/fry-in-tank-how-to-w-c-etc-and-unique-female-and-tank-pics.448580/
     

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