Pic Post - Please Help Confirm Sex Of My Elliotis

[SouthernCross]

Hi all,

So I've finally gotten hold of some of these guys! I am keen to confirm what sex they might be. Thereis a lot of chasing going on by the one I think is male towards the ? female. If they do pair up I have a spare three footer I'm hoping to move them into if they do, as there's potential to actually make something at my LFS with the fry. Elliotis I know are common lots of places but not here. I waited for four years to see these little guys in an LFS near me, so I snapped them up, the last two (the rest had been bought by an employee!) I got them for $35 each. I saw a few more at a different shop (presumably from the same stockist) charging $60 a fish. Both stores commented to me they are lucky to be able to order them once a year, if that. I'm hoping to help them out with that if these two are a pair!

So I need some help confirming what I think. So the first pic, I think is male. This one has grown slightly bigger than the other, IMO more colourful (though could just be dominant) but has developed definite extensions on the dorsal and in particular the anal fin extends a lot further along the tail than the other fish.



This one I think is the female. She is a lot shyer and it was harder to get a decent pic. But to me, she is less colourful (could be stress from being chased by the other) but her dorsal fin hasn't grown an extension yet and her anal fin seems a lot more squared off. No black blotch on the dorsal on this one, although I've read that not all females definitely have the blotch. Opinions?



Now the next shot is terribly blurry but the only one I was able to get with them in the same shot for a size comparison. One is chasing the other. I've had them about three weeks and they were exactly the same when I bought them.



And lastly this shot is just for fun - I'm just really impressed I managed to get such a nice shot with an iPhone! The one I think is male again...



Would love to know your opinions on whether I have a male/female or not. Cheers!

 

[DrRob]

Pic 1 is definitely male. Pic 2 could be a non dominant male, seems quite big for a female. Difficult to tell completely though, as you say the dorsal spot is not present in all of them, it's part of the species spread and apparently denotes a location of origin within the system as part of a cline.

 

[hobby5]

60$ a fish? Damn I would start breeding elliots tomorrow
 
The black blotch on the dorsal is normally the feature to discriminate between males and females. I would give nothing on color or fin extensions as those normally don't develop fully in subdued individuals. So I would say 2 males. Good luck! Only time can tell if it turns out differently

 

[DrRob]

My word, I hadn't seen the price. I have about 20 left. That'd be $700-1200.
 
They're quite easy to breed.

 

[SouthernCross]

Ahh shame. Oh well, time will tell I guess. Not a single one of the fish I did see for sale had a black spot. Will just keep my eyes open I guess. Yes the price is crazy. As I said I've been looking for them in my area for four years and this is the first time I've seen them!

 

[star4]

I am sure you have a male (top) and a female. They are easy to breed and are fantastic parents, mine bred like mad in a community tank in the end I couldn't give the babies away

 

[SouthernCross]

Hey star4, thanks for the response! What makes you so certain I've got one of each?

 

[star4]

lol bred over 200 of the little blighters and had to sex them and separate them lol, fin differences between the two, the general body shape of the female is different to the male, males have a  more smooth  line than the females (hard to explain), blue spotting on the tail & dorsal fin is more prominent on the male (this is difficult to tell with photographs though sometimes, cheek spot differences, eye markings (not always an indicator though). I cant tell from the photograph but the blue across the top of the lip on the male is usually brighter than on the female, sometimes it is missing from a female. They are one of those sort of fish where sometimes some of the differences in markings do not apply, you get a really colourful fin spotted female.

 

[hobby5]

Fingers crossed that star4 is right
 
@SC What is the size of those and did you see any display/courtship behaviour so far?
 
Please keep us updated

 

[SouthernCross]

Squee!!! Thanks star! I really hope they are. There's been a bit of chasing going on from the male towards the female but she keeps coming back to him. I would say the male is about 5cm, the female a bit less. Still only little. They are in a quite well stocked semi aggressive tank and I'm wondering whether its probably not likely they will breed with so many other cichlids present, but you never know. Once they have grown a bit I may put them in a three footer I have. I have some half buried flower pots and some driftwood in there. Do they have a preference for what they like to spawn on?

I will certainly keep you updated!

 

[star4]

Mine would dig a pit in the substrate and spawn in it, smooth gravel is ideal as its easy for them to move and doesnt drift about like sand. Mine would raise fry with an oscar (he was growing out in their tank) pictus catfish and various other foster/rescue fish that went in and out of the tank

 

[SouthernCross]

If I wanted to set up another tank for these guys to give them the best shot at breeding, what size should I go for at a minimum? I'm a bit space conscious is all...

Also should you put dither fish in a breeding tank or not?

Cheers

 

[DrRob]

Personally, yes, I'd go for dithers. The males can get very aggressive around breeding and the female will take some punishment otherwise.
 
Debatable on tank size, but I'd aim to stay 3 feet and above personally.

 

[SouthernCross]

Something like rummys? Obviously I want something big enough not to be eaten by the ellioti but at the same time I don't want them going after the eggs/fry!

 

[hobby5]

To be honest I would leave them in your large tank until they pair up if they get enough food and don't get harassed too much by the other fish.
 
Any livebearer is imho a good dither and provides nice live food