Ph 7.6-8 Help Me Get Out Of This Fishkeeping Rut!

[alysonpeaches]

My pH has recently risen to 8, it was 7.6 for about 6 months. Dont know why, but thats not the point. I have got stuck into a rut just keeping livebearers. I have two tanks 70 litre and 96 litre and may get another soon or have a swap round. My current stock are in the 96 litre but could fit into the 70 litre which is currently a spare or quarantine, but is still set up. I have 3 mollies, 3 platys, 2 male guppies, 4 cories. I recently lost quite a few fish when my heater failed in the on position, and I have replaced it, stabilised things etc. and am looking to add a few more fish. But I always get predictable fish, especially livebearers. Which I like, but I would like a new challenge.

I wondered about cichlids? If I emptied the 96 litre and made it into a cichlid tank would it be big enough, and which cichlids could I keep at pH 8? I know Lake Malawi comes to mind, but I think I would need a huge tank for that sort of set up. Is anything possible with 96 litres? Dwarf cichlids? I havent kept them before so I need a few pointers. I have a large (over large in fact) external filter which does 1400 lph and an internal. I thought about kribs of apistogramma assizi (sp?) but I dont think my pH is right for these.

Anyway I am totally open to suggestions. I am also browsing ebay for a 180 litre Juwel tank, waiting for one to come locally.

 

[ZoddyZod]

For a tank that size you could take a look at some of the small shell dwelling cichlids from Africa. Would fit nicely with your pH to.

here's a good article about them....

http/www.cichlidae.com/article.php?id=65

 

[Rorie]

you could always try changing your PH...there are various means of doing this, both in and out of the tank/filter.

For my bare tanks, my PH always reaches 8.0. So i started using a PH 6.2 buffer during water changes - add the smallest amount to the water being added to bring it down to 6.2. I have found this to be very stable and reliable way to keep my PH at 6.2. Granted i am doing water changes either every day, or every two days.

 

[scotty]

use bogwood to lower your ph

 

[raptorrex]

you could always try changing your PH...there are various means of doing this, both in and out of the tank/filter.

For my bare tanks, my PH always reaches 8.0. So i started using a PH 6.2 buffer during water changes - add the smallest amount to the water being added to bring it down to 6.2. I have found this to be very stable and reliable way to keep my PH at 6.2. Granted i am doing water changes either every day, or every two days.

you could, but its fraught with problems. and its never, truly, stable. unless you go the whole hog and make it from RO.

its always better to keep fish that suite your water.

 

[StandbySetting]

Adjusting your PH really isn't that difficult if your preparation techniques are good, as noted before you could use bog wood, but if your tap water PH after 24 hours is 7.6 and your tank PH is 8, then something is raising the PH.

Any rocks in the tank? What substrate are you using?

 

[raptorrex]

Adjusting your PH really isn't that difficult if your preparation techniques are good, as noted before you could use bog wood, but if your tap water PH after 24 hours is 7.6 and your tank PH is 8, then something is raising the PH.

Any rocks in the tank? What substrate are you using?

keeping it stabler is. as you need to Change GH and KH too. you cant change one and keep things stable. lots of stuf on the shelf clains they can. none can. without RO.

bog wood will not change PH for long, if at all.

 

[StandbySetting]

That is what you're changing - the GH+KH the PH changes as a result of that, the off the shelf products are weak acids, of course they will reduce the PH albeit not for very long dependent on the KH of the water it is being added to, RO water has a PH of 7, and contains no minerals, the only way it would be safe to use is if you add remineralising powder.

And bogwood releases tannins, and humic acid, which will reduce the PH. Peat and peat bags (similar to tea bags) can be used to reduce the PH also.

 

[raptorrex]

That is what you're changing - the GH+KH the PH changes as a result of that, the off the shelf products are weak acids, of course they will reduce the PH albeit not for very long dependent on the KH of the water it is being added to, RO water has a PH of 7, and contains no minerals, the only way it would be safe to use is if you add remineralising powder.

And bogwood releases tannins, and humic acid, which will reduce the PH. Peat and peat bags (similar to tea bags) can be used to reduce the PH also.

every thing you say is true. but none are stable. there is no way, short of RO. to effectively reduce PH, over time. water will buffer itself. and Tannins will have little or no effect on your ph.

standard advice. don't mess with PH unless you want to be messing all the time. there is a decade of threads here. many on this subject. do you think you have found something, nobody else has? we even breed Discus, in Europe, that can stand much higher PH than wild caught. just why do you think they did that?

seriously man, do you actually read posts. i said "make it from RO. which, for most people, means making up the mineralisation of you water, using ro as a base. as opposed to "use RO". which is what you, erroneously read.

incidentally. i know the effect of tannins on tanks. i know the ph of RO. if i didn't, i would not have posted.

take a trip down FORUM search lane. it will help you greatly.

 

[StandbySetting]

No need to be rude, it's just as stable as using any other way of reducing the PH providing you keep up with the maintenance required to keep it stable.

Keeping a stable lower PH long term is pretty doable providing you know how the KH+GH relationship affects PH, I wouldn't recommend it to someone new to the hobby however.

And before criticising others abilities to interpret posts, I advise that you make yours clearer to prevent confusion in the beginning, instead of assuming that people read in the same way that you do.

'Make it from RO' could mean anything, mixing it with water, mixing with mineralising powder, it's an ambiguous statement.

 

[N0body Of The Goat]

A few options that comes to mind for hard water 96l tank...

• A hareem of Tanganyikan shell dwellers with a group of small, upper water rainbowfish like Forktail Blue Eyes.
• A pair of Kribs with some hardy upper water dithers.
• A proven pair of Lionhead Cichlids with some hardy upper water dithers.
• A species only tank of Persian Killifish.
• A species only tank of an endangered livebearer such as Butterfly Goodeids or one of the Ilyodon members.

 

[Rynofasho]

Agree with the no need to be rude. I've found that bogwood can have a dramatic affect on tapwater pH. I've performed many experiments because I have such awful water (pH about 9.8 out of the tap) and have found that you should probably also perform your own experiments, because everyone's situation is unique. For example, everyone told me that I would gas off a bunch of CO2 if I just left the water overnight, so I left it overnight. 9.8 pH still. Left it one more night. 9.8 still. So that killed that theory.

I started purchasing pieces of bogwood and would soak them overnight in buckets. My pH would fall dramatically to about 7.0. That isn't to say that my water is not buffered either, because I KNOW I have hard water. The fridge, all our faucets, shower doors, the works all get a nice build up of calcium and other deposits, and I live right near the convergence of the Mississippi and the Meremac River in Missouri, so our ground is full of shale and rock and clay and other things that make your water generally hard.

I've had 3 pieces of bogwood in my main tank for months now, and even though the water goes in at 9.8 pH, it typically stabilizes around 7.5 within a few hours.

I will agree not to mess with chemicals to affect water parameters as there is too much margin for error, but bogwood, for some people, is a reliable way to bring down pH and keep it STABLE which is most important. Again, this is just my experience, but I don't think it is necessary to rib other forum members because you don't agree with them.

 

[blue acara]

Personally I'd try a pair of kribs with some small high level swimming dithers as another said. They breed easily look great and are hardy. For me you can beat seeing a pair of cichlids jealousy guarding their fry.

 

[gillicous]

My pH has recently risen to 8, it was 7.6 for about 6 months. Dont know why, but thats not the point. I have got stuck into a rut just keeping livebearers. I have two tanks 70 litre and 96 litre and may get another soon or have a swap round. My current stock are in the 96 litre but could fit into the 70 litre which is currently a spare or quarantine, but is still set up. I have 3 mollies, 3 platys, 2 male guppies, 4 cories. I recently lost quite a few fish when my heater failed in the on position, and I have replaced it, stabilised things etc. and am looking to add a few more fish. But I always get predictable fish, especially livebearers. Which I like, but I would like a new challenge.

I wondered about cichlids? If I emptied the 96 litre and made it into a cichlid tank would it be big enough, and which cichlids could I keep at pH 8? I know Lake Malawi comes to mind, but I think I would need a huge tank for that sort of set up. Is anything possible with 96 litres? Dwarf cichlids? I havent kept them before so I need a few pointers. I have a large (over large in fact) external filter which does 1400 lph and an internal. I thought about kribs of apistogramma assizi (sp?) but I dont think my pH is right for these.

Anyway I am totally open to suggestions. I am also browsing ebay for a 180 litre Juwel tank, waiting for one to come locally.

instead of using tap water which has a high ph have you thought about using collected rainwater as i have recently posted this would be alot purer than tap water with a lower ph what would others feel about this?

 

[raptorrex]

My pH has recently risen to 8, it was 7.6 for about 6 months. Dont know why, but thats not the point. I have got stuck into a rut just keeping livebearers. I have two tanks 70 litre and 96 litre and may get another soon or have a swap round. My current stock are in the 96 litre but could fit into the 70 litre which is currently a spare or quarantine, but is still set up. I have 3 mollies, 3 platys, 2 male guppies, 4 cories. I recently lost quite a few fish when my heater failed in the on position, and I have replaced it, stabilised things etc. and am looking to add a few more fish. But I always get predictable fish, especially livebearers. Which I like, but I would like a new challenge.

I wondered about cichlids? If I emptied the 96 litre and made it into a cichlid tank would it be big enough, and which cichlids could I keep at pH 8? I know Lake Malawi comes to mind, but I think I would need a huge tank for that sort of set up. Is anything possible with 96 litres? Dwarf cichlids? I havent kept them before so I need a few pointers. I have a large (over large in fact) external filter which does 1400 lph and an internal. I thought about kribs of apistogramma assizi (sp?) but I dont think my pH is right for these.

Anyway I am totally open to suggestions. I am also browsing ebay for a 180 litre Juwel tank, waiting for one to come locally.

instead of using tap water which has a high ph have you thought about using collected rainwater as i have recently posted this would be alot purer than tap water with a lower ph what would others feel about this?

excellent idea, though you would need to take care in city and industrial areas. it would work as well as any of the notions proffered and at, virtually 0 cost. perhaps several 25% changes a week, would maintain the PH (ish). but then you need lots of rain. so ok for keepers in Manchester then! lol.