Nitrite & Ph Problems

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Sounds like the cycle is going a little askew right here.

I would try get the tank back to when you had stable 0ppm ammonia after 12 hours and 0.25 nitrites for a few days then add some fish! My reasons being:

1. You can only test so many times during any one ammonia adding period, sometimes the nitrites will have been high, other times low other times ZERO other times 0.25 which is pretty close to ZERO on a test kit.

2. You obviously have ammonia and nitrite cycling bacteria alive and available to cycle out to Nitrates. You could probably get to to day 365 if you tried and still have 0.25 Nitrite reading when you test due to 3.

3. It sounds like (as you are dosing flourish and ferts) you have a number of plants, these, as you probably know, will also be processing some of the ammonia you dose and therefore depending on other nutrient available differ in the amount they decide to consume. In turn I think the Nitrite swings you have just seen are a result of this. Imagine this scenario: over the last 48ish hours the plants, preffered eating tasty ferts and mostly ignored the dosed ammonia, filter ammonia bacts grew a bit and ate the ammonia. Nitrite filter bacts could not keep up with Nitrite produced (ammonia bacts seem to grow quicker than Nitrite ones).

I hate to say it but I think you have missed the boat when you had stable ammo's @ 0ppm after 12 hours and Nitrites @ 0.25ppm. Try to get the tank back there for a few days and I think you are ready to add fish!

Obviously the Ph is a worry but I wouldn't worry too much for now. It's possibly down to Flourish/Ferts dosing as is the only thing you put in the tank other than Ammo or water ;) (excluding external factors we don't know). Bogwood can also drop Ph quickly during a leach. After Ammonia dosing stops with your new fishes in, the filter will acclimate to whatever the load is at that point (assuming you don't overload!) and you can then up the fish load (weekly or every two weeks) from there towards your target crew, just don't do it at once is my advice. After the first fish are added, I'll eat my hat if you don't see Nitrite drop to ZERO after a week or so (unless of course you have some in your tap water already ^_^ )

People seem to kid themselves about aquarium water: There is always Ammonia, Nitrite, Nitrate and many other Elements/Compounds in every fish tank, as water-keepers (as opposed to fish-keepers :p ) we attempt to keep all elements in the water stable for our fish and plants to be healthy. We can only ever give the best that we can but our conditions will never meet the natural conditions from where the fish or plant came from.

My 2 cents although you are at liberty to ignore it completely :D

What fish are you wanting?

Good luck :good:
 
I hate to say it but I think you have missed the boat when you had stable ammo's @ 0ppm after 12 hours and Nitrites @ 0.25ppm. Try to get the tank back there for a few days and I think you are ready to add fish!

What fish are you wanting?

Good luck

Ben, thanks for your thoughtful reply. I'll continue to post nitrite levels. Tonight, after dosing ammonia to 4ppm, nitrites have actually risen to 2.0 ppm. pH is steady at 7.2+

I've noticed in the last 2 to 3 days foam - bubbles, if you will - collecting in front of the 2 water ramps of my HOB. After breaking up the collection several times, it reformed. Tonight, however, it has disappeared. Could this have been an indicator of the demise of the 2nd bac. colony? Regardless, something has undermined the viability of the colony. Any suggestions as to what I should do, other than to continue dosing to 4ppm?

Thanks,

Ranjohns
 
ps we plan to stock the tank with harlequin rasboras. Please explain why we shouldn't fully stock the tank once nitrites are under control. Given the size of our nitrite eating bac colony at .25ppm, wouldn't it, the colony, decrease if stocked with much less than a full load of fish? If so, then we would face the proposition of increasing the size of the colony to accomodate a full load of fish. Any thoughts about this?
 
Its -extremely- rare that anyone does the big water change and fully stocks a tank out to match the size colonies that a good 5ppm fishless cycle will have acheived! We know that! RDD knew that when he wrote the article! Its by design. You -always- want the colonies to be robust and somewhat oversized when you switch over to fish, not the other way around. In fact, the other way around doesn't work of course, only switching you to a fish-in cycle after you stop fishless cycling.

What's great about robust colonies at the point of switchover is that then the fish rarely experience "mini-cycling" during their introduction period, which of course is right when they will be stressed from other additional factors (the physical moving, the temp changes, hardness changes, the whole "move" experience.)

Its a totally normal thing that you have colony drop-off at the point of fish introduction, its what you want. But what you -have- got if you "go the whole nine yards" on your fishless cycle, is a pair of bacterial colonies that will often test out with rock-solid double-zeros from the end of fishless cycling onward, basicially as long as you properly maintain the tank, which can be for years.

I disagree with the image that the ammonia and/or nitrite(NO2) test results will just "dither about" and keep on giving low amounts forever if you don't add fish. Even if a fishless cycle is extremely slow (for whatever reason) it will eventually reach a point where you won't be able to detect even a tiny trace of ammonia or nitirte(NO2) 12 hours after adding ammonia no matter what. If you use the API kits, the ammonia test will become always clear lemon yellow, the nitrite(NO2) test will become always clear baby blue and it will do this day after day at the 12 hour mark.

Now, what I -do- agree with is that if you plan to understock (relative to 1 inch per US Gallon type rough guidelines) after a fishless cycle and if you've watched all of the typical phases of the fishless cycle process (the initial ammonia drop, the nitrite spike phase, the 24-hour zeros, etc.) and are finally just "bumping up against" double-zero readings at the 12-hour mark but they're still occasionally tracing at 0.25, like is being described in ranjohn's thread here, then its really just down to personal choice. If you're willing to continue twice-daily testing and stand ready do do water changes if a set-back appears, there's nothing wrong with chooseing to go ahead and end the fishless cycle and switch to fish at this point. Its likely the colony sizes are sufficient by this point. In ranjohn's case the choice of harlequins for the initial stocking makes the choice even easier as they happen to be quite hardy and an excellent first-stocking choice. So its in some sense a trade-off between your level of patience vs. how picky you are about wanting to watch that double-zero level for a week or so.

~~waterdrop~~
 
I intend to disembark with double zeros at 12 hours regardless of any rants and raves reportedly heard at 0.250.


I remain thankful for your comments yet fishless,

Ranjohns
 
dosed ammonia to 4ppm

at 8hrs ammonia was 1; nitrites, 2.0

at 12hrs ammonia was 0; nitrites 1.5

the hare is still in the race.

ranjohns
 
Looks like you got the ammonia under control! :good:

It should not be too long before the nitrIte drops to zero! :hyper:

-FHM
 
It should not be too long before the nitrIte drops to zero! :hyper:

-FHM
[/quote]


Day Seventy-nine

Nitrites at 1.5 12 hours after dosing ammonia to 4ppm :sick:

Ranjohns
 
I say in one week it will be under control.

-FHM

I hope you're right!

Day 80:
same as 79 - nitrites at 1.5 after 13 hours.
I removed wood to brush and remove algae. Soaked it in de-chlorinated water before replacing it in the tank. Fewer snails now to contend with.

Dosing Seachem macros and micros at a bit more than Seachem recommends. Double dosing Excel. The beat goes on.

Still :fish: less.
Ranjohns
 
I say in one week it will be under control.

-FHM

I hope you're right!

Day 80:
same as 79 - nitrites at 1.5 after 13 hours.
I removed wood to brush and remove algae. Soaked it in de-chlorinated water before replacing it in the tank. Fewer snails now to contend with.

Dosing Seachem macros and micros at a bit more than Seachem recommends. Double dosing Excel. The beat goes on.

Still :fish: less.
Ranjohns
I am hoping too!

One day, you will check and it will be a zero!

Man, that was a good feeling!

-FHM
 
I remember finding zeros at 12 hours and not believing my eyes because it had been hanging just short of that for so long. I don't know why it can seem to be so non-linear in this way.

~~waterdrop~~
 
Sometimes a water change will kick it to the finish line a little sooner.

-FHM
 

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