Newbie Needing Some Help And Guidence

[plecostomus-mad]

hi, i recently bought a 2 ft by 1 ft ( 60l ) tank with a fluval plus 2 filter and heater. i started a fishless cycle with the temp set at 28c/80f 7 days ago and i have introduced 4 black neon tetra's today.now some see this as cruel, some dont, so im expecting mixed views.

before i bought the neons i took a water sample to my local aquatics store and the results for nitrite,nitrate and ammonia were all normal, so as a bloody noob i went ahead and bought the neons.now i did the normal thing when introducing to the tank ie; left the bag in the tank for 10-15 mins to get the same temp, added about 2 small cups of tank water to the bagged fish, then repeated after 5 mins.waited another 10 mins and unleashed them into the tank. is this the correct method? i read when i got them home that a tank takes 6 weeks + to cycle hence the bloody noob! the tests must have been wrong?

now its been several hours and they look happy and very active, they like to play in the current,and went mental at the sight of food!! is this normal?
i also placed 3 real plants in the tank right before the fish( had small metal weighted band at the bottom of each? safe? )

ive read all over the net that these neons are hard little buggers that can tolerate many fluctuations? i know it will not be healthy for them, and will very possibly make them ill and kill some and for that i feel like a right b*stard! so dont think for a second im enjoying making innocent little fish sick!

the overall aim and the reason for the tank purchase is pleco's! i love the buggers! my dad had 4 sailfins, 2 clown and 1 common plecostomus amongst various chilids and angel fish in a 6 x 2 x 2. i used to watch them for hours on end as a child.( pleco's never argued much.)

so my initial aim is to get 2 plecs, not sure which yet and some other mid to high feeders. i must also note that i intend on getting a 6 x 2 x 2 tank after christmas so i can have a few more plecs but for now, which plecs would be ideal for my tank when its cycled?

thanks in advance for any advice

 

[JustFrozen]

how much and how often did u add ammonia during the 7 days of fishless cycling? obviously the tank isnt cycled after a week. usually it takes at least a week for the first drops of ammonia to start to be processed!

also, it's not a good idea to go by what the LFS says! they just want you to buy the fish. first and foremost, you need a good test kit. most people here recommend an API freshwater master test kit.

also, forget about common plecos in that tank. they grow to between a foot and 2 feet! it wont even be able to turn around let alone swim around freely

 

[plecostomus-mad]

no ammonia was added, i did however add flakes every other day? i also added cycle ( reduces fish loss ) and aqua plus water conditioner.before the fish went in i did a 25% water change at roughly the same temp and ''hoovered'' the gravel a little to get rid of some old food.

i wasent planning on putting a common plec in the tank my dads was at least 13 inches long and probably still growing.

im a bit worried about the tetra now, hence why im up at 2.20am! they seem ok for the moment but i know this isnt going to last, i dont know anyone with a aquarium i can put them in either my dad seems to think they will be ok as this was his method back in the day. back then it was the only method he added......hmmm? maybe i was tought wrong?

this is a bad situation for my poor tetra and i need a quick solution, any ideas?

 

[OldMan47]

Welcome to the forum Plecostomus-mad.
You have done the usual thing and followed what you believed was good advice. There is nothing at all wrong with the tests. When you have not had any fish in the water it is almost always great fish water. That is why we use it for our water changes, pure tap water is very good water for many fish. The problem with an uncycled tank starts after you have fish in the tank. The fish produce the ammonia and that begins the cycling process of a fish-in cycle. A few days after the fish are placed in the tank you start seeing the first ammonia and then you try to stay on top of things with water changes.

 

[plecostomus-mad]

A few days after the fish are placed in the tank you start seeing the first ammonia and then you try to stay on top of things with water changes.

thank you for the warm welcome, would that be white cloudy water?

 

[JustFrozen]

no ammonia was added, i did however add flakes every other day? i also added cycle ( reduces fish loss ) and aqua plus water conditioner.before the fish went in i did a 25% water change at roughly the same temp and ''hoovered'' the gravel a little to get rid of some old food.

flakes will do it, but after a lot longer time. they will get broken down into ammonia, which is what starts the cycle, but it's much quicker to just add the ammonia directly. but since you have fish already, we're way past that point already. what you need to do is read the fish-in cycle guide here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

as long as you keep water changes consistent like oldman47 said, your fish can pull through, and eventually your tank will be cycled, allowing you to only have to do water changes about once a week

edit: i just noticed you found the other un-stickied fish-in cycle guide! well there go you're set you've come to the right place

 

[plecostomus-mad]

no ammonia was added, i did however add flakes every other day? i also added cycle ( reduces fish loss ) and aqua plus water conditioner.before the fish went in i did a 25% water change at roughly the same temp and ''hoovered'' the gravel a little to get rid of some old food.

flakes will do it, but after a lot longer time. they will get broken down into ammonia, which is what starts the cycle, but it's much quicker to just add the ammonia directly. but since you have fish already, we're way past that point already. what you need to do is read the fish-in cycle guide here http/www.fishforums.net/index.php?showtopic=224306

as long as you keep water changes consistent like oldman47 said, your fish can pull through, and eventually your tank will be cycled, allowing you to only have to do water changes about once a week

thanks for the link very good write up by rabbut and will no doubt save me asking questions all over the forum

 

[arobinson1984]

I see you have laready been pointed in the right direction regarding your fish-in cycle situation so to your other question.

The only plecs really suitable for that sized tank and even then at a push would be either a bristlenose plec (BN plec) which reach max of 6" but usually dont exceed 5" or a bulldog plec which are another small plec.

Try to refrain from getting a large plec in the knowledge you are getting a bigger tank, although small when your buy them, plecs as I'm sure you know from your dad are very fast growers and create LOTS of waste.

Andy

 

[plecostomus-mad]

I see you have laready been pointed in the right direction regarding your fish-in cycle situation so to your other question.

The only plecs really suitable for that sized tank and even then at a push would be either a bristlenose plec (BN plec) which reach max of 6" but usually dont exceed 5" or a bulldog plec which are another small plec.

Try to refrain from getting a large plec in the knowledge you are getting a bigger tank, although small when your buy them, plecs as I'm sure you know from your dad are very fast growers and create LOTS of waste.

Andy

thanks for your response, yup, my dads grew pretty quickly and i will not be getting a bigger plec until i have a big enough tank, and PRE cycled without fish my tetras are doing ok today, very active and eating really well. i do however have a bully in the tank! one tera is a greedy #29### and darts around like crazy for the food, he is noticeably bigger than the rest so i put some more in closer to the other fish and it seemed to work . another thing thats happened is my white cloudy water has vanished overnight? the substrate was washed very well and im sure wasnt caused by that. am i correct in saying the white cloudy water is a bacterial bloom? and can anyone tell my why it has vanished? could it be the plants?

 

[waterdrop]

The white cloudy water is quite normal and not a problem for your fish or your fish-in cycle. You are correct in your understanding that this is what we refer to as a "Bacterial Bloom."

Personally, I find the phenomenon of a bacterial bloom quite fascinating! Its started by there being some organic matter in the water.

["Organic" refers to matter that was once part of a living organism or chemical compounds that contain carbon (except for a few carbon-containing molecules that are not usually found in living organisms and so we exclude them.)]

Sometimes the organic matter comes from fish or plant debris or it can even come from molecules given off by the glue used to hold the glass panels of an aquarium together! In your case it was more likely from the fishfood flakes you put in, or at least added to by that.

Next comes the fascinating part: Even though our typical tap water is nice and clean and safe for humans, it still contains (at very low counts) any number of both "autotrophic" and "heterotrophic" bacteria. Autotrophs are the eaters of inorganic molecules and include the 2 species we hope to grow as beneficial bacteria in our filters. Heterotrophs are the type that eat organic matter. They need to eat material from other life forms, just like we do (humans are heterotrophic too!) What happens in the tank water is that when the extra organic matter is present in sufficient quantity, the heterotrophs have a feast and a population boom! And the fascinating part is that they become so numerous that they are actually visible to the naked eye as the white cloudiness in the water!!

So the heterotrophic bacteria eat and eat and divide like crazy right there in the open fresh water and they eat up all organic molecules they find. Then poof! The food is gone and their huge numbers quickly die off and the water goes clear. What's left are a few heterotrophs (just like when the tap water came in) and a little extra ammonia that they produced from processing the organic matter.

Seeing white cloudiness is an early normal occurance in a cycle, but its also a good symptom for the student of the hobby to see because much later on if you ever see a mature tank with cloudiness you'll more readily recognize that it -could- be the sign of excess organic matter somehow and could be a warning that a cycling situation is present and needs to be tested for! When cloudiness is seen, the most common alternate explanation of course is that inorganic dust-size particles, typically from a new substrate, could be a different cause.

~~waterdrop~~

 

[plecostomus-mad]

The white cloudy water is quite normal and not a problem for your fish or your fish-in cycle. You are correct in your understanding that this is what we refer to as a "Bacterial Bloom."

Personally, I find the phenomenon of a bacterial bloom quite fascinating! Its started by there being some organic matter in the water.

["Organic" refers to matter that was once part of a living organism or chemical compounds that contain carbon (except for a few carbon-containing molecules that are not usually found in living organisms and so we exclude them.)]

Sometimes the organic matter comes from fish or plant debris or it can even come from molecules given off by the glue used to hold the glass panels of an aquarium together! In your case it was more likely from the fishfood flakes you put in, or at least added to by that.

Next comes the fascinating part: Even though our typical tap water is nice and clean and safe for humans, it still contains (at very low counts) any number of both "autotrophic" and "heterotrophic" bacteria. Autotrophs are the eaters of inorganic molecules and include the 2 species we hope to grow as beneficial bacteria in our filters. Heterotrophs are the type that eat organic matter. They need to eat material from other life forms, just like we do (humans are heterotrophic too!) What happens in the tank water is that when the extra organic matter is present in sufficient quantity, the heterotrophs have a feast and a population boom! And the fascinating part is that they become so numerous that they are actually visible to the naked eye as the white cloudiness in the water!!

So the heterotrophic bacteria eat and eat and divide like crazy right there in the open fresh water and they eat up all organic molecules they find. Then poof! The food is gone and their huge numbers quickly die off and the water goes clear. What's left are a few heterotrophs (just like when the tap water came in) and a little extra ammonia that they produced from processing the organic matter.

Seeing white cloudiness is an early normal occurance in a cycle, but its also a good symptom for the student of the hobby to see because much later on if you ever see a mature tank with cloudiness you'll more readily recognize that it -could- be the sign of excess organic matter somehow and could be a warning that a cycling situation is present and needs to be tested for! When cloudiness is seen, the most common alternate explanation of course is that inorganic dust-size particles, typically from a new substrate, could be a different cause.

~~waterdrop~~

WOW thanks for taking the time to explain in great detail