New Fish Keep Dying

[Alexp08]

So in the last week ive bought 14 fish from my LFS and dispersed them amongst 2different tanks thats have been running for about a year now. 4 Rosie barbs, 6 neon tetras, 2 mollies, 2 yoyo loaches.  So far, 2 barbs, 4 tetras, 1 molly and 1 loach have died. in my on tank the GH is off by about .5 in the other its off by about 2. The PH is off by about .2. Ive tested my nitrites and ammonia and they both read zero.
 
My question is, does my LFS just suck or could there be something else in play here? all fish went into community tanks. 

 

[BiggTexx]

I am assuming by your post the the fish were not quarantined before hand and there could be a number of causes we need to consider:

1. What is your acclimation procedure for new fish?
2. What other fish do you currently have in those community tanks?
3. When you say your pH and GH are off, what are they off of?  What are the actual readings?
4. What temperature is your tank set at?
5. What is the Nitrate reading?

 

[TwoTankAmin]

It is not likely an acclimation procedure I would bet. E especially since there should be virtually no ammonia built up in bags of fish brought home from a local store, they were not bagged long enough for that. Most acclimation is useless anyway since a fish will not actually acclimate to major differences in much less than one to two weeks. And if they are out of their safe temp range and in danger from this, the solution it to get them back into proper temps ASAP.
 
I doubt it has anything to do with nitrate. If it was so high in your tanks to be the cause, some of your existing fish would likely be in trouble as well.
 
This really leaves a few reasonable things to consider. Though I doubt it was aggression between existing and new fish, it would help to know what these are to help rule this out 100%. But, I would think if the fish were fighting seriously, either you would have noticed this and/or there would have been some  injuries on some of your other fish.
 
The real question is whether the cause of the deaths is due to something in your tanks or is it due to your getting fish in "bad" shape. If things were off in your tanks, the odds are it would also eafect the fish you already have in them. On the other hand, the fish which died all came from one place, so I think it pays to look at this side of things.
 
Since the fish were varied I would assume they were all not in the same tank in the store. So the questions that come to mind here are:
 
1. How did the fish look generally in the store tanks? Did you see any dead or apparently sick fish in any of them, specially the ones from which your new fish came?
2. Do you know if the store has a central filtration system or has tanks ganged on a few common systems? Many stores do.
3. Do you know how long the store had the fish before you bought them?
4. What have your past experiences been when purchasing form this store?
5. How did the dead fish behave in your tanks before they died? Did they hide? Did they eat? Did they behave oddly in any way?
6. Did the fish show any symptom, either physical or behavioral, between the time you got them and the time they died?
6. Did you call or visit the store since the fish died and discuss this with them? If so, what did they have to say?
 
When you say parameters were off, I assume you mean relative to those at the store. If this is not the case then what did you mean and then do you know the store tank params in the tank or tanks out of which your new fish came?
 
When I see over 50% of fish die within a relatively short period, I normally assume it is related to a common cause. Because you are not losing any of your existing fish, my instinct is to look to the store as the source of the problem and not your tanks.
 
Diagnosing fish for most things is extremely difficult for us as hobbyists. If it is not something clear cut such as Camallanus worms or Ich, the actual root cause may be invoisible to us. Combine that with trying to do remote diagnosis and the problems are magnified. Unfortunately, there are not many fish vets. So we are forced to do the best we can with what we have.

 

[Alexp08]

Couple quick answers. 
My nitrate varies between 15-20ppm as they are both planted tanks
I do not have a quarantine tank. I know this is bad ive never had problems where i felt i needed that kind of tank until now. 
My acclimation process is to put the bag in the water for about 45 mins so the fish can adjust to the new temp. 
 
My GH on one tank is 7 on the other it is 5. their water is about 4.5-5
I believe my ph is 6.5 theirs is 6.7 
 
The fish looked fine in store, there did not appear to be any dead in the water at that time, however it is not uncommon for there to be. When there are, ive seen them scoop it out and feed it to a larger fish. 
 
 
Im 90% sure they have a central filtering system.  
They had the fish for atleast 4 days as their shipments come in on mon and wed afternoon and i bought on sunday.
Ive bought probably over 100 fish from them and they are really hit or miss.Ill buy say 20 and none will die, Ill go back a month later and buy 2-3 and theyll all die.
 
As far as how they acted. the yoyo loachs hide anyways so i didnt see it much. The one molly went right into hiding and ate the first day. The barbs seemed fine, ate and didnt act weird. The neon tetras, im not sure. i put them in my tank, woke up and 2 were dead. 
 
I did go to the store for the tetras since they died that night, most of the fish lasted 3-7 days. i think the bards lasted the 7 days. 
I went in and said that two of the tetras died that night, the guy said okay do you want two more, i said yes. he bags them, takes them to the counter and said okay 2.49 a piece. (this was yesterday, those two have already died again....)
 
In the tanks theyre put in, i have not lost any fish since i set the tank up about a year ago. 
The one tank have tiger endlers, the other has rummy nose and cardinal tetras so i really dont think aggression was to blame

 

[skink_boy]

Too many at once 2 fish is about maximum imange if several people turned up to your house in the same day plus don't put tetras in with barbs (you don't want to learn that the hard way)

 

[TwoTankAmin]

My feeling is the fish are not healthy when you get them. I work with a nice lady who gets fish like wholesalers. I usually pick up the boxes of fish at the trans shipper outside the airport. Last Sunday I picked up 4 boxes/ One of the fish purchased were 400 hasbrosus corys. 300 were dead and rotting in the bag. She was trying hard to save as many not DOA as possible. My friends quarantines fish that she gets and will not sell them if they have any issues at all. The same cannot be said for most stores. They buy them and then turn them over as fast as possible.
 
My bet is when one has varied purchasing results like you describe from the same store, it means what you get depends on what they get as they are apparently doing nothing to insure the fish ae healthy enough to be sold. If they have a central system, or several banks of tanks on different systems, all the tanks with the same system will share anything contagious that goes into any tank/ It becomes hits or miss.
 
Knowing this you have only two choices. the first is start to Q new fish. that way you can only lose them and not existing fish, This is a good idea in all cases. If you cannot or will not do this, then you need to find a store that does a better job in this respect. But then be prepared to pay more for the fish. I have gotten most of my fish shipped in almost from day one. I have also sold fish born in my tanks and I ship them as well. Over the years I have come to say the following to people based on my experience. One live healthy fish has to be worth at least 3 DOAs.

 

[fluttermoth]

Too many at once 2 fish is about maximum imange if several people turned up to your house in the same day

The amount of fish you can add to a tank is almost entirely depended on how many fish are already in there, if it's a cycled, already partially stocked tank. You should add no more than 50% of the current bioload, in that case. With a newly cycled set up, it dpends what PPM of ammonia you've cycled too. (That's without taking other factors into consideration, of course, like comptibility, size of tank, hardness of water, etc.)

 
 
 

plus don't put tetras in with barbs (you don't want to learn that the hard way)

As I've already said, on another thread, both 'tetras' and 'barbs' are such large families, with such different fish, both in size and temperament, that it's impossible to make generalisations like that.

Very many barbs and tetras can live together quite happily.

 

[Alexp08]

Too many at once 2 fish is about maximum imange if several people turned up to your house in the same day plus don't put tetras in with barbs (you don't want to learn that the hard way)

the tetras did not go in with the barbs. these fish are spread out amongst 3 diff tanks 
The tanks have been running between 8months and year 2 mo's. 
 
Ive order alot offline as well and have had less problems. so that will be what ill stick to from now on. 

 

[Byron]

I'm with TTA here.  I have first-hand experience with this too.  Here in Vancouver, there are the "chain" stores (Petland, Petsmart), there are independent stores, and there is a direct importer.  I have had no end of trouble from the chain stores, and I will no longer walk through their door for fish.  I know (or know of) the suppliers for the two independent stores I deal with; I have never had problems with their fish.  Same for the importer.
 
The local store can have problems as TTA outlined.  The source of the fish is critical too.  Different stores may use different suppliers, and their stock (the supplier's) may be healthy or less so.  Sometimes these issues won't appear for months.  I found that when I was buying fish from Petland, and quarantining them for two months, it was not for another two or three months later that the fish began weakening and dying.  But this never occurs with the other fish.
 
Most of my issues over the past four years have been linked to internal protozoan.  Twice I lost half my tank due to something brought in with new fish.  I now QT everything, even from the reliable sources, as you never know.  It is sad to lose the new fish, if this should happen, but it is much worse to see fish you have had for several years begin dying one or two every day.  A 20g QT is well worth it these days.
 
Byron.

 

[colleen0309]

A simple tote, air pump, heater, and sponge filter make a cheap Q tank.