Mysterious Fish Deaths! Can Anyone Help?

[pokegirl1332]

ok well just suddenly my threadfin rainbow died, the day before he seemed perfectly healthy but i just got him 2 days ago from the lfs so maybe something was already wrong with him but either way i couldn't see anything wrong with him but the next day (today) i just noticed my spotted cory was also dead =( i've had him for about a month now so idk what could have happened, nothing out of the ordinary looked wrong with him but I couldn't see his whiskers after he died idk what could have happened but i really liked that little guy =( what could be the problem cuz i tested my water and everything is perfect!! please help!!!

 

[Baccus]

When you say you tested your water and everything was "perfect" we actually need to know what the actual levels of Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite where. Also where you using a test strip or something like an API test kit?

How long has the tank been set up?

Without giving us more information about your tank, other inhabitants and general tank maintenance routine it is all but impossible for us to help you solve the issue and guide you in caring for your fish.

 

[pokegirl1332]

When you say you tested your water and everything was "perfect" we actually need to know what the actual levels of Ammonia, Nitrate and Nitrite where. Also where you using a test strip or something like an API test kit?

How long has the tank been set up?

Without giving us more information about your tank, other inhabitants and general tank maintenance routine it is all but impossible for us to help you solve the issue and guide you in caring for your fish.

ok well i use the test strips and the levels right now are nitrate 0 ppm, nitrite 0 ppm, hardness 75 ppm, chlorine 0 ppm, alkalinity 80 ppm, ph 7. when I woke up this morning there was another threadfin rainbow dead =( and a silver hi fin molly very near dead that'll probably die in a few minutes idk if there's something sweeping my tank that could have come from the pet store or something cuz i did add a few recently, I've had the 55 gallon set up for about a week and a half now added the fish to it about 5 days ago and they were doing fine, this was an upgrade from my 20 gallon tank so i moved the fish that were in that tank (set up for about 5 months)  to the 55 gallon then added some new tank mates, the tank before had 1 dwarf flame gorami, 1 golden wonder killi, 4 corys, and 3 mollies and 3 platys (expanded so i could keep them and the babies) my golden panda lyre tail had babbies and 3 died right off the bat and got eaten by my killi without a chance and i saved 8 of them and they're in a seperate 10g tank set up just for them (about 2 weeks old and so cute) then when i got the new tank i got 2 more gorami's (fat lip sunset somthing like that) because the store person assistant was telling me that my gorami will attack my other fish if he doesn't have tank mates and of course i also read A LOT!!!!! online about them and that they can be aggressive towards each other and all the terrible things of keeping more than one but so far i haven't seen any aggression at all they seem pretty peaceful, i also added 5 rainbow fish 3 threadfin and 2 turquoise (it was all they had and i planned on eventually getting 1 or 2 more), 2 more mollies, and 2 more platys. and everything did fine the first 2 days then 1 threadfin died so i just guessed that was just one that was weak or dying from the pet store already and i'd return it, boom, then my spotted cory turns up dead (had him for 4 months with no problems) boom today i wake up and check on them and one of my mollies (that i just got), and another threadfin rainbow are gone =( and that's what's left now i really don't know what to do =( any help PLEASE!!!!

 

[Meeresstille]

First, I'm sorry so many of your fish have died. I imagine you're pretty disappointed in this new tank right now, but we will help you figure this out. There is some more information you could give us that would be helpful:
 
Did you transfer the filter media over to your new 55 gallon? (Wondering if you are now dealing with an uncycled tank)
 
What filter are you running on this tank? (Wondering if it is filtered sufficiently)
 
You've added a lot of fish all at once which might be too much for the bacteria in the filter (assuming you transferred the filter media with the fish to the new tank). Your tank might be in a mini-cycle, where the bacteria needs to catch up with the increased bio-load.
 
It would have been better to get 3-4 new fish and quarantine them before adding them to the tank. New fish often bring parasites and infections with them which can then infect the entire tank.
 
Is it possible some cleaning solvent has gotten into your tank? Did you wash/rinse everything that you put into the tank? Is there a new decoration that may be unsafe? (sometimes the paint can flake and leak toxins into the water)
 
How about the heater? Do you have a thermometer on the tank? What temperature is your water?
 
The test strips may be able to tell you approximately what is going on, but they are really unreliable. It is recommended to test your tank with a liquid test kit, and the one you really need right now is the Ammonia test. I doubt it though, that it was Ammonia that killed your fish in 2 days, but we really need to know that reading to be sure. Some LFS offer to test the water for you, ask them to give you the number of the Ammonia reading.
 
Did you observe the fish before they died, were they staying at the bottom of the tank, hiding, or were they at the top, near the surface, gasping perhaps? Do you see them rubbing themselves on decorations and rocks, do you see spots on the fish, like they were sprinkled with salt, or do you see worm-like things hanging off them?
 
I am unsure about the compatibility of your stocking, so I won't comment on that. Though it is good to ask on here about fish compatibility, there are many members who are very knowledgeable. The sales people are often to blame for bad situations new hobbyists find themselves in, so I would not recommend to take their advice alone.

 

[pokegirl1332]

First, I'm sorry so many of your fish have died. I imagine you're pretty disappointed in this new tank right now, but we will help you figure this out. There is some more information you could give us that would be helpful:
 
Did you transfer the filter media over to your new 55 gallon? (Wondering if you are now dealing with an uncycled tank)
 
What filter are you running on this tank? (Wondering if it is filtered sufficiently)
 
You've added a lot of fish all at once which might be too much for the bacteria in the filter (assuming you transferred the filter media with the fish to the new tank). Your tank might be in a mini-cycle, where the bacteria needs to catch up with the increased bio-load.
 
It would have been better to get 3-4 new fish and quarantine them before adding them to the tank. New fish often bring parasites and infections with them which can then infect the entire tank.
 
Is it possible some cleaning solvent has gotten into your tank? Did you wash/rinse everything that you put into the tank? Is there a new decoration that may be unsafe? (sometimes the paint can flake and leak toxins into the water)
 
How about the heater? Do you have a thermometer on the tank? What temperature is your water?
 
The test strips may be able to tell you approximately what is going on, but they are really unreliable. It is recommended to test your tank with a liquid test kit, and the one you really need right now is the Ammonia test. I doubt it though, that it was Ammonia that killed your fish in 2 days, but we really need to know that reading to be sure. Some LFS offer to test the water for you, ask them to give you the number of the Ammonia reading.
 
Did you observe the fish before they died, were they staying at the bottom of the tank, hiding, or were they at the top, near the surface, gasping perhaps? Do you see them rubbing themselves on decorations and rocks, do you see spots on the fish, like they were sprinkled with salt, or do you see worm-like things hanging off them?
 
I am unsure about the compatibility of your stocking, so I won't comment on that. Though it is good to ask on here about fish compatibility, there are many members who are very knowledgeable. The sales people are often to blame for bad situations new hobbyists find themselves in, so I would not recommend to take their advice alone.

i didn't transfer the filter media  from the 20g to the 55 but i used about 75% of the water from the 20g to help get the tank filled, i rinsed everything that went into the tank very carefully with scalding hot water as well , added only 2 decorations and it's a cave and an arch, the fish that died weren't acting funny that i could tell and i didn't see anything at all wrong with them though now i suspect a few of the fish of having white spot that has now taken over my tank. just noticed it a little while ago but i've had this happen before with my old 10g so i have some leftover tablets for the ick, they were schooling with others and swimming around like they normally did. the tank temperature is 73 right now and the filter i'm using (came with the tank) is the marineland bio wheel i believe it's the model 350. I do also actual have liquid testers as a back up and my ammonia right now (just tested 20 mins ago) is at 0, although i have just witnessed a bit of aggression from the gorami's and have talked to the lfs manager and they said they would do an exchange on any of the fish that have died whether they were mine from before or ones i recently bought so that's a plus, i will be taking back all the gorami's because i know it's a part of keeping fish but i like to keep the aggression in my tank at little to none.

 

[Meeresstille]

Did you check the expiry date on your Ammonia liquid test? (just making sure we don't rely on a faulty test kit)
 
I'm not familiar personally with your filter, but if your filter media from your previous tank is still wet, if possible add it to your new filter. It will get this filter well on the way to being cycled, especially with the amount of fish you are left with now. If that is not possible wash the sponge or filter media in the new tank for the bacteria in this gunk to get sucked into your new filter. This will seed the new filter and help the cycling process.
It would be good to keep track of your water parameters so you know when your tank is cycled (0 Ammonia, 0 Nitrite and readings of Nitrate)
 
It is quite possible that ich killed these fish, sometimes ich can settle in the gills killing the fish very quickly. I've only ever treated ich with the heat-salt method, so all I can say is to make sure that you get all the ich, even the ones that will be hidden in the substrate slowly maturing into free swimmers later on.
 
Don't add any new fish at this time. You can use this time to make a plan for the stocking that you'd like, keeping in mind that A) the fish you choose are compatible with each other, B) are in the right amount of number for their species, C) you aren't overstocking the tank (think of their sizes as adults) and D) they all need the same water temperature. 
 
When you add new fish (after 5-6 weeks quarantine) you need to keep track again of your water parameters so you can remove any high Ammonia or Nitrite toxins from the tank as needed.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

Sounds like new tank syndrome to me (aka ammonia poisoning).  You said you used old tank water, not the filter media.  The bacteria you need live on surfaces, not the water.  So, transferring the old water just kept the water parameters the same (which is good), but did nothing for the ammonia that's going to build up.
 
The scalding hot water killed any bacteria that had been on the decor, so again, the bacteria you need are missing.
 
Finally, diseases like white spot are usually present in the tank, but healthy fish can fend it off easily.  But, when fish are stressed by other factors, those diseases can get a foothold, and next thing you know you are over run with problems.
 
 
I might have missed something with the process, but I do believe that's the root of the problem.

 

[pokegirl1332]

Sounds like new tank syndrome to me (aka ammonia poisoning).  You said you used old tank water, not the filter media.  The bacteria you need live on surfaces, not the water.  So, transferring the old water just kept the water parameters the same (which is good), but did nothing for the ammonia that's going to build up.
 
The scalding hot water killed any bacteria that had been on the decor, so again, the bacteria you need are missing.
 
Finally, diseases like white spot are usually present in the tank, but healthy fish can fend it off easily.  But, when fish are stressed by other factors, those diseases can get a foothold, and next thing you know you are over run with problems.
 
 
I might have missed something with the process, but I do believe that's the root of the problem.

but how can it be ammonia poisoning if my ammonia levels are at 0?

 

[Baccus]

The test kit that you used may have been out of date, thus giving you a false reading that the water was ok.
Also in the week that the tank had been set up did you do any water changes? If you did a water change and then soon after actually tested the water then the readings for the tank would be out of whack to what the fish had been living in prior to the water change.
You didn't meantion if there was life plants in the tank, if there is they could be removing some of the ammonia for their own nutrient take up depending on when you tested the tank. Eg Was it tested well and truly after the tank light had been on for a while and any life plants have had the chance to photosynthesis for a while.
 
I too believe that the root of the problem stems from an uncycled filter combined with the addition of too many new fish all at the same time. The stress of what ever chemical imbalance that is occurring in the tank is what allowed the ich to take hold, ich like most illnesses is an opportunity attacker.

 

[eaglesaquarium]

 

but how can it be ammonia poisoning if my ammonia levels are at 0?
 

 
Exactly as Baccus points out, the test might not be reliable.  Generally strips are far less reliable than liquid test kits, almost to the point of being worthless.

 

[pokegirl1332]

 
but how can it be ammonia poisoning if my ammonia levels are at 0?
 

 
Exactly as Baccus points out, the test might not be reliable.  Generally strips are far less reliable than liquid test kits, almost to the point of being worthless.
 


 
 

The test kit that you used may have been out of date, thus giving you a false reading that the water was ok.
Also in the week that the tank had been set up did you do any water changes? If you did a water change and then soon after actually tested the water then the readings for the tank would be out of whack to what the fish had been living in prior to the water change.
You didn't meantion if there was life plants in the tank, if there is they could be removing some of the ammonia for their own nutrient take up depending on when you tested the tank. Eg Was it tested well and truly after the tank light had been on for a while and any life plants have had the chance to photosynthesis for a while.
 
I too believe that the root of the problem stems from an uncycled filter combined with the addition of too many new fish all at the same time. The stress of what ever chemical imbalance that is occurring in the tank is what allowed the ich to take hold, ich like most illnesses is an opportunity attacker.

i do have lots of plants in the tank and i also mentioned above that i used 2 ammonia test kits one strip test and one liquid test and they were both the same, i seriously doubt that both would be bad or wrong, and i did let the water sit for while with the plants and everything before testing.

 

[Meeresstille]

How is your ich treatment coming along? Do you see any improvement yet? You could soak the fish food in garlic juice, it is said it boosts the immune-system. 
 
When I treated ich in my tank I did daily gravel vacs to reduce the amount of free swimmers and the possibility to re-infect the fish. Especially bottom dwellers are easy hosts, because the free swimmers might have enough time to get to them before the ich treatment can have an affect on them.

 

[pokegirl1332]

How is your ich treatment coming along? Do you see any improvement yet? You could soak the fish food in garlic juice, it is said it boosts the immune-system. 
 
When I treated ich in my tank I did daily gravel vacs to reduce the amount of free swimmers and the possibility to re-infect the fish. Especially bottom dwellers are easy hosts, because the free swimmers might have enough time to get to them before the ich treatment can have an affect on them.

so far the ich treatment is working well, i raised the temperature a bit to 76 so far, i'm not sure how much higher i should go and if i should go higher, I read up about a lot of possible treatments but the garlic advice is really useful though thanks and i'll give that a try, hopefully my corys are ok with the temperature, ik its a bit cooler at the bottom of the tank and hopefully they aren't really too affected by it as they are like my favorite little babies of the tank, I love them. but the only fish that still show the signs of the ich right now are the rainbowfish, pretty sure i heard somewhere that they are more likely to get ich than most other common fish.

 

[Meeresstille]

If your fish are tolerating this temperature you can raise it some more. 76 is really not that warm. I'd raised my tank to 82/83 with peppered Cories and they were doing fine. You need to make sure you have lots of aeration in the tank, adding an airstone could help. I only lowered the water level so the water falling back into the tank from my HOB filter was creating more splash. Cories can also come to the surface for air, that is kind of unique to them. But if you see them in distress then you need to lower the temperature.

 

[pokegirl1332]

If your fish are tolerating this temperature you can raise it some more. 76 is really not that warm. I'd raised my tank to 82/83 with peppered Cories and they were doing fine. You need to make sure you have lots of aeration in the tank, adding an airstone could help. I only lowered the water level so the water falling back into the tank from my HOB filter was creating more splash. Cories can also come to the surface for air, that is kind of unique to them. But if you see them in distress then you need to lower the temperature.

the ich seems mostly gone by this point (by gone i mean off the fish and probably into the gravel) but i'm changing about 30% the water and syphoning the gravel tonight. 2 of my corys were acting a little funny with the temperature raised so I decided to lower it again and i did add 2 long airstone like wall bubblers or something like that a few days ago I just had to get the right ones, but by morning even with the temps back down to normal (raised and lowered temps very slowly of course nothing crazy) (over a couple days) the 2 corys were gone =( but crap happens thats life, once everything is clear again i'll be adding some more julli corys and albino corys, that i currently have in quarantine that the pet store exchanged my other fish for. about 5 jullis and 3 albinos and not gonna disturb any peace after that with adding or moving fish.