My betta fish community tank

[Mr. Shums]

Um, I'm not sure how many of you breed betta fish but after extensive research into their behavior I put my mind to making a peaceful community tank of bettas.

WELL after... inital losses of weaker fish the society is well along, they breed on a regular basis and posses a beautiful social structure.

Has anyone else attained a large number of betta fish within an envirment without losses? If so I'd be intrested in your techniques of intoroducing new bettas into the tank and manipulating the social structure for breeding purposes.

I'll update with some pictures if there's an intrest from the community.

It's a thirty gallon hexagon tank with about twelve betta fish.
They've gotten rather large in this bigger envirment, as opposed to the ten gallon tank i started my community with.


I've also found that they all chip in on helping with the bubble nest, giving other fish time to rest from tending to the nest.

 

[wuvmybetta]

I'd like to see pics and I'd also like to know how you go about making this work.

Welcome to the board!

 

[Naughtygirlrlw]

Welcome!!!
How long did it take to achieve peace in the tank and
how long has it been that way?
That sounds very cool...I would love to see pics!

 

[Mr. Shums]

Initally I started by introducing them to new situations (all male tanks, all female tanks). I then used my observations and (mostly) good judgement to create increasingly larger social situations. I usually started with making the females less agitiative twards the males by putting a bubble curtian in the all female tank so that they'd learn to be less excited by physical stimualtion, this immeadiatly gives the male fish less to worry about when they can approach the females without that teasing "bubble" manuver that seems to annoy male bettas to no extent.

When I put all the males together there are few situations after an inital night of fighting for dominance. Waking up I'd find them all existing together (rather torn up mind you) peacefully with one "bully" dominant male fish. oddly enough the dominant male at this point is usually one of the weakest, being that the stronger larger betta fish were so weak from fighting all night. I would then take the dominant male and put him in the all female tank. I found females need to be atleast 2 days established in this "harlem" so that they don't kill each other in competition for the males attention when he's introduced.

Soon the bosterous weaker fish learns that he is no match for a tank of females and can be put back in the all male tank as you see fit. UNLESS he's very weak, in such a case give him a few days of isolation.

You should do this daily with a new male fish each time giving the females chances spawn (they won't). Instead they'll tease the male until he lies at the bottom of the tank, throughly frustrated. You can take him out at this point if you'd like.

The females now get very anxious, these encounters with new males should give them chances to see that teasing and not touching the males gets them nowhere and that the male quickly loses intrest in them,in favor of more "pysical" females.

This process initally took me about two weeks and uncountable hours of observation and alterations to the betta society. Sometimes aggressive fish is same sex tanks need to be put in "one on one" tanks with other overly agressive oppisite sex bettas to promote peaceful initentions. Sometimes in these situations you might even get some eggs, or get to observe new mating behavior~

Once you feel your betta fish are comfortable with these situations you can put them in a NEW (It's very important that you create a new tank for the community) tank with enough bubble nest spots for atleast every male fish to have one. I would recommend putting each fish in one after the other, starting with females strongest to weakest then males weakest to strongest.

IMO you could put about nine fish in a ten gallon tank if you're careful enough.


I think that about covers the basics. You'll need to make alterations, as betta fish are fickle dramatic creatures and sometimes require more time then others in getting used to the community tank.


And I can't seem to find my camera at the moment, I'll upload some pictures before the weekend is out though

keep it fishy

 

[Auratus]

I'm not exactly sure how to respond to this without coming off rude, so I'll just leave it at this...

I think it's a very bad idea and sounds very stressful.

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How many fish did you loose doing this? How many fry have you sucessfully raised to adulthood with this method?

 

[MegTheFish]

What kind of bettas are you talking about? Normal VT's or the group that can peacefully live together? (I'm talking about the ones that Synirr has...forget what they're called!)

 

[SRC]

uhhhhh...ummmmm.........

They've gotten rather large in this bigger envirment, as opposed to the ten gallon tank i started my community with.

So you are saying...that they grow larger then they are suposed to..just because you put them all together?

So why doesn't this happen to people with female community tanks?

Sometimes aggressive fish is same sex tanks need to be put in "one on one" tanks with other overly agressive oppisite sex bettas to promote peaceful initentions. Sometimes in these situations you might even get some eggs, or get to observe new mating behavior~

Um...so you are saying that putting them in before they have been conditioned to breed is good?

And you also suggest getting peaceful intentions..by introducing them into a hostile environment?

And how is this going to be a new breeding behaivor..I thought there was only 1...male fertilizes eggs and eggs hatch..it parents don't eat the eggs.

When I put all the males together there are few situations after an inital night of fighting for dominance. Waking up I'd find them all existing together (rather torn up mind you) peacefully with one "bully" dominant male fish. oddly enough the dominant male at this point is usually one of the weakest, being that the stronger larger betta fish were so weak from fighting all night.

So you're saying that getting torn up after a nite of being shredded is going to make these fish be the "stronger" fish?

So how do you treat their fins...to keep them from getting fin rot?

IMO you could put about nine fish in a ten gallon tank if you're careful enough.

Uh..yeah ok.

WELL after... inital losses of weaker fish the society is well along, they breed on a regular basis and posses a beautiful social structure.

So you are saying you have created a situation that absolutely would not exists in nature? With fish named "fighting fish" for a reason?

I've also found that they all chip in on helping with the bubble nest, giving other fish time to rest from tending to the nest.

You're joking..right .



I'm extremely interested in seeing this "setup". So find your camera.

 

[Andie]

I would be very interested to see some pictures of the setup you have described.

 

[OrkyBetta]

It sounds possible, but not probable at all. What kind of bettas are they? I want to just warn you, but I'll save you the lecture, as I doubt it will do much. Your tank is a TIME BOMB. One day, it will go off and you will come home to a slew of dead and/or injured fish. This is simply because they didn't earn the title "fighter fish' for nothing. They can and do fight to the death, or just injure eachother so badly that they die of secondary infections. Bettas don't share. Maybe because you have SO many of them in there (not to mention how over stocked that is) that MIGHT be why nothing has happened yet, because of sheer overwhelming conditions. Good luck to you, you are going to need it.

 

[Synirr]

I was going to refrain from posting until I saw the pictures because I'm aware that negative comments can often prompt someone to stop posting altogether and I'm incredibly interested in seeing this setup and whether or not it actually is working... but since negative comments have already been made, I guess it won't hurt at this point

Firstly, I think it's very neat that you are trying new things. Nothing ever gets discovered without experimentation. However, I have to admit that this whole arrangement does leave a very bad taste in my mouth. Personally, from observing interactions between my bettas for several years, I don't think that this sort of thing is at all a healthy or comfortable arrangement for the fish. It certainly isn't a natural one, especially in a tank as small as you are using. Heck, Betta splendens as we know them today aren't natural. They have been bred for aggression over the span of many, many years and are absolutely bloodthirsty compared to their wild counterparts. I don't care how docile your betta is... I have lazy boys too, but they're nothing like my Betta imbellis pair. That underlying aggression is still there. In contrast, my imbellis pair don't even so much as posture at one-another, nevermind actually flare, unless they are spawning. I've never seen a single ripped fin in their tank.

Overall, while I do think it might be possible to force the fish to sort out some sort of social structure in the interest of their own safety when living in such close quarters, it's an environment of constant tension that I would never force my fish to live in. It's an extremely unsocial animal being forced to live socially... if there's anything more unnatural than the fish themselves, that's it. I'm still interested to see this setup, but there's absolutely no way I would risk the wellbeing of my fish to try it.

 

[fishykisses]

Very diplomatic Synirr - well said.

 

[xxSarahxx]

Interesting one! Ummmmm....... I wouldn't do it, I'd ADORE to see pictures and if it is working then good for you...however...there is no way I would do it!! Can I just say that?!?!?!
PLEASE post pictures and reply to us all as your responses are needed I feel!

 

[GSD]

id love to see pics.I think its not an ideal situuation for bettas as it is nothing like their natural environment.I think it will be very stressful for the fish too.Betta males get very streesed if een near eachother

 

[Mr. Shums]

I lost three and it's not a time bomb, I was very careful to watch the tank at ALL times when the bettas were initally introduced. I wasn't trying to come off arrrogant or that I don't care for the well being of my bettas. It took me alot of time and extensive alterations to attain this. Not only that but I waited until I had a very large tank for the permanent process.

I can understand the hobbiest shuddering at my tank, but honestly they exist very peacefully. The reason bettas are so agressive is because we treat them like fish, because of thier names. Look at how iniactive betta fish are in little jars, we put them in there because we are told to, I was not doing anything new or exciting. I just longed to see my fish happily swimming in a tank with other fish of it's kind.

obviously none of you have even remotely tried this or I wouldn't have gotten such a response. I love my betta fish as much as I love my cat, you confine your fish in a little jar and call it happy because you don't have a concept that possibly the fish require time and patience interact happily. They need to see other betta fish, and see them enough that the solitude and agression of being in a jar is terminated. Close quaters is nessisary initally because the fish are more agressive in periodic sessions as opposed to one living tank. Male betta fish fight very little without a female to fight over, and once dominace is established very little skirmishes take place. I gave them one inch per gallon WITH filtration since you give them oh.... a pint per fish I don't really see how any hobbiest could "shudder" at the thought of my tank. Without other fish a jar is a prison. No wonder they fight so much, with people like you encasing them in tiny containers, never getting to see one of their own kind. That solitude alone makes them so dramatic and agressive that community tanks are so impossible.

I've had my community tank about 6 months now.

I could explain every element of my process, explain my findings on their nature but to be completely frank I expected this. I'll still respond in this thread, and frequent the forums but it wouldn't kill you all to be a bit more open minded.

 

[Bloo]

Could we see some photos please ?