Kids Right's, Fish Rights...

[KathyM]

Not really though. Just becasue the law/the shop says one thing, doesn't mean thats what they do- take again my example of 14 year olds buying alcohol even though they don't exactly look mature and have no ID. Besides which, I don't exactly have my parents backing- no way do they want to hang around in lfs's when I want to buy fish. If they come at all.

Think of it this way - kids get hold of alcohol underage - does that make it right? Should we legalise kids getting alcohol? No. Bad argument really. I'd be just as peed off if my kids had a beer as if they went out and bought a pet without my permission. But, beer is temporary and they'd suffer from it. A pet deserves a responsible home, as do children. They also deserve to be taught responsible pet ownership, which doesn't begin by a kid going out and buying an animal without parental consent or involvement. The animal's welfare has to come before what a kid wants, and that can't happen when a child is allowed to buy an animal without the parents being involved or even consulted.

I suppose any raise in the legal age is a good thing for the animals. However, I'd prefer to see it raised to 18.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

I suppose any raise in the legal age is a good thing for the animals. However, I'd prefer to see it raised to 18.

It shouldn't and won't get higher than 16 in my opinion. Just think of the amount of 16/17 year olds that are either accomdated in college, or they have their own rented place. Who do they have to consult before buying animals? Noone, meaning they should be able to purchase animals.

I believe it should be enforced by law that under 16's can't buy animals, but no higher.

 

[KathyM]

We'll have to agree to disagree. Yes there are kids sadly out and about at the ages of 16/17, I was one of them. Doesn't mean I think a 16/17 year old is mature enough to buy a pet. Again, we need to put the animal first, not what a child wants.

 

[furryrabbit]

My meagre amount of pocket money, working around the house, the job I have at my school covering/stamping books and delivering them around the school. Saving all my money from birthdays and Christmas. Not buying other stuff like CDs, sweets, magazines, alchol, drugs and cigarettes. Transport, carry what I can, with a large tank hitch a lift off the father.

Same here Oofeeshy, you got it in one, saving is the key its got to be good practice.

That sums it up well . Same for me ( except for some of the last ones )

 

[geo7x]

ok, ok, ill agree to disagree with people who think the law should not be enforced , despite the fact i am under 16 myself, i think it would be a great thing

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

I think it would be a good thing to make it no under 16's but definately not 18. People are by far mature enough to look after fish at that age.. I was when I was 12..

 

[KathyM]

Maybe it should be down to home owner's permission at all ages then? Because most 16 year olds are still living at home and if I was their parent I'd be livid if they were bringing home more animals!

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

Maybe it should be down to home owner's permission at all ages then? Because most 16 year olds are still living at home and if I was their parent I'd be livid if they were bringing home more animals!

That could work.. maybe LFS should be required to ask for a note from parents for people under 16/18? This would have to clearly state the parent is happy to accept the animal(s), and also they should give a contact number.. Although, in the real world.. I suppose that would be too long-winded.

 

[Saedcantas]

To clarify there has been a great deal of confusion about this supposed "law" and where it applies or where it is supposedly already law or may become law.

I originally said that here in the UK the new Animal Welfare Bill is still being drafted and making it illegal for unaccompanied under 16's to be allowed to buy live vertebrates (that's fish and upwards!) is simply one of the many proposals under review which could become new UK law.

I'm 21 and I currently live with my Dad. When I was moving back from Uni in June, he said I would need to downsize my fishkeeping to one tank only and that is exactly what I did because not only is he the homeowner but he's my dad and he deserves my respect I wouldnt dream of showing up with unannounced pets or planning on new purchases before mentioning (more like asking actually) it to him. So I wholly agree with the people who brought up the actual permission of the parent or guardian as an important point

 

[Neal]

It's a great law, as it stops some immature people from buying fish to just throw around and kill them, out of pleasure. I personally have written permission to purchase things in my LFS, because my mam knows I care for my fish and I would confirm it with her before buying anything anyway. I think it should be that way, and if someone can be trusted, ask their parents to leave written permission with contact details.

Neal

 

[Tolak]

More stupid laws. Eventually they will make enough of them so that you will have inadvertently broken some obscure screwball law sometime in your life. That makes nearly anyone who has done anything a lawbreaker, and subject to legal prosecution at any time. If for some reason they don't like something that yopu are doing that is now legal, all they need to do is look back, find something you did that wasn't legal, and prosecute you as they see fit, because ignorance of the law is no excuse.

How's this for a concept; personal responsibility along with personal liability. I know shops where they won't sell you any living thing unless you appear to have the competence necessary to care for it, whether you are 10, 16, or 60. They feel responsible for what they are selling. The same can be said for alcohol, firearms, power tools, spray paint or whatever. I know plenty of competent aquarist under the age of 16, as well as plenty of idiots 40+ who shouldn't cross a busy street unescorted. Age doesn't correspond with competence.

 

[KathyM]

I don't see how any law aiming to protect children or animals is "stupid". As for the age and competence not going hand in hand thing, it's an argument you often hear, generally from teenagers who are frustrated about being held back for their own safety (no offence, it's natural and we all moaned about it).

As a Mum I can say I'm glad there are laws in place to stop kids drinking, buying firearms etc. They're not to pee kids off, they're to protect them from themselves. The news last week of a young lad being killed by an airgun is a sad and timely reminder that kids need to be protected by the law.

 

[Tolak]

The problem is the laws are there, they don't stop kids from drinking, buying firearms, drugs, or thousands of other things. Another law about underage fish purchases won't stop them.

As a parent of adult children it's my responsibility to teach them about the wonderful mutitude of nasties out in the world, and I am liable if they screw up as minors, they are liable if they screw up as adults. I was taught this, before there were laws against half the normally acceptable things such as spray paint & bb guns on the books. It's nothing more than tax dollars wasted on lazy adults who don't want to spend the time educating kids on the real way the world works.

You worry about fish now, wait until your kid has to be 16 to purchase candy or fast food. Those things are not good for kids, those laws could be passed to protect them. There is an epidemic of fat children in developed countries now. You could go on to eternity basing one law on the previous one, trying to please one special interest group after another, all in the name of protecting animals, children or whatever, until oops, you broke a law.

 

[KathyM]

A lawless community is not the answer. You can't say "Oh well in my country they don't work so let's legalise the lot". I can probably concede that laws aren't enforced enough - and I would imagine the problem is a lot worse in America than here, although it seems that the UK is following in the US's footsteps.

Luckily over here things are changing for the better on the animal welfare front, and it can't come soon enough.

I do agree that as parents we have to teach our children about what's safe and acceptable behaviour. But not all parents do, and there has to be laws to back that up.

Edited to add: My son goes up to secondary school this week. Chocolate/sweets and fizzy pop are banned in that school, and that's something I back too.

 

[Synirr]

I gotta agree with Kathy... kids and teens need to be protected from themselves. I am far too young to have forgotten what it is like. I was the responsible one, surrounded by others my age who seemed hell-bent on destroying themselves or making their lives miserable in one way or another. No, the laws do not prevent anything, but they are a good deterrent, and at least encourage young people to think twice. Murder is illegal too, but that doesn't prevent it -- maybe we should legalize it too, since it is impossible to enforce 100%? Same line of reasoning.

Like I said before, human brain circuitry is not even fully developed in the average individual until they reach their late teens/early 20s! This DOES effect your decision-making, but by the same token, prevents you from realizing this yourself. Decisions that seem logical when you are in your early teens will suddenly become completely illogical and even be realized to have been downright dangerous once illuminated through the goggles of adulthood. The point of all this is that your average child doesn't have the wherewithall to think ahead far enough to make responsible decisions about pet ownership, it's as simple as that. Thus, SOMEONE needs to protect them and their pets from their own poorly thought-out decisions, and legislation, sadly, often has to pick up where poor parenting leaves off.

EDIT:

Although many teens have fairly advanced intellectual and reasoning ability, recent research has shown that human brain circuitry is not mature until the early 20s. Among the last connections to be fully established are the links between the prefrontal cortex — the seat of judgment and problem-solving — and the emotional centers of the brain. These links are crucial to emotional learning and high-level self-regulation, explains the Harvard Mental Health Letter.

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