Kids Right's, Fish Rights...

[Fishkeeper2004]

It seems to me that most people above 16 don't realise just how many under 16 year olds there are on the forum. So saying a blanket 'Kids might be good at helping with animals, but they're not responsible enough to take on family pets alone. Until they are, they shouldn't be allowed to buy them.' or similar isn't really a good philosophy

I don't see why not. I personally think that any family pet should be obtained by responsible means - the kids on here may or may not follow that, but they're not my kids and therefore it's not my responsibility.

Remember, the law is for any pet too, dogs, cats, the works. I find that very disturbing and depressing - no child should be ultimately responsible for an animal. I didn't say they couldn't have pets, but that in my opinion pets should not be bought by under 18 year olds when the parent is ultimately responsible.

I agree with you when it comes to dogs, cats etc. However, with Tropical fish and maintaining my tank, from 12 onwards I was able to do all the necassary things by myself, including cleaning the filter, water changes, and gravel vacumes.

Although, we have to work on averages here. Ok, there may be around 20% of children that could well maintain and care for a fish tank, and the livestock they keep inside it. However, after giving it a bit of thought, the law should indeed by changed as the other 80% would buy, and get bored after a few days.

I probably wouldn't have said what I have done now if I was younger, but at this age I realise only a handful of children/teenagers, can be trusted to look after fish or indeed any other animal, responsibly.

 

[KathyM]

But how would that change if you had to have your parents involvement in actually buying the fish? Let's face it, responsible kids who want fish would involve their parents in the decision to buy them. The only thing that would change if kids couldn't buy them alone would be that those who don't involve their parents wouldn't be able to get them (and quite rightly too). Stopping children from buying animals would not stop responsible kids having pets - it would stop the idiot kids who buy without asking their mam and dad.

 

[OohFeeshy]

I'm not saying it shouldn't be put into place, I'm just saying I don't think you should apply statements in blankets like that. Me? My parents only help look after the cats (which is a pet for the whole family, therefore, responsibility of the whole family). The rest? I personally take sole care of all my fish, the killer rabbit, and have taken sole care of assorted hamsters, mice, dwarf hamsters. I am also looking for a praying mantis (which I haven't technically mentioned to the parents yet), am looking into gerbils, and wouldn't say no to a dwarf rabbit if I found space for a cage. I don't even ask to borrow money to care for said creatures. All is paid for out of my own pocket.

Let's face it, responsible kids who want fish would involve their parents in the decision to buy them.

Well, I don't. They couldn't care less, they don't know what the hell I'm talking about, they're not paying for it, the only reason they ask 'Are you gettting anything then?' is so they can get out as soon as possible. Or indeed, out of politeness. I take better care of fish than my parents would, my mum keeps on talking about getting a goldfish for the 3g I have with no fish, my dad wonders why I do water changes.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

Similar to me OohFeeshy,

Everything to do with my tank is paid for an maintained by me. My parents are fine with it, but aren't willing to share the workload, but I'm happy with that, because I enjoy doing everything, and it's kinda my 'project'.

I agree, in most cases for kids who are allowed fish it wouldn't really matter if the law was put into place. However for me, it would be a very rare occasion that my parents would be willing to travel with me to get some fish, meaning that it would prove impossible for me to keep up with the hobby. Luckily for me, I got on good terms with an LFS through visiting frequently buying supplies, and they soon let me purchase livestock without my mother or father being present.

 

[Fella]

If you are under the age of 16, realistically where can you find the money to look after a fish properly? Afford a tank greater than 10g (the floor limit for most reasonable fish), afford the medications that may need to be administered within 24hours notice, food, water conditioner for water changes, accessories etc? How will you transport these things?

If you were to ban fish to those under 16, their parents would most likely by them for them anyway. There is no point in banning under 16's from buying livestock (Even though I think legislation to impose that may make it easier for LFS employees to say no if they feel the customer will be unable to look after the livestock) because their parents (in most cases I've seen) would be able to help them anyway.

Long and the short of it is, everyone who keeps fish should attempt to give it the best environment possible, and look after it as best they can. If they can't afford the medications, tanks, dechlorinators etc, then they're best off keeping creatures which don't come in at such an expense.

I have no problem with under 16s looking after fish (I would have loved a tank at 14, instead I kept sticklebacks in a small tub), but they must be providing the adequate care for those creatures, and willing to listen to advice given to them by those that might be more experienced.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

If you are under the age of 16, realistically where can you find the money to look after a fish properly? Afford a tank greater than 10g (the floor limit for most reasonable fish), afford the medications that may need to be administered within 24hours notice, food, water conditioner for water changes, accessories etc? How will you transport these things?

I know not many teenagers are in my position, but I have been developing & selling websites and domains for over 3 years now, and started at just 13. This has easily funded my hobby, and any pocket money I recieve just gets added to my bank acount for future expenses. Luckily, I have never had a problem with finding money, but I understand most children of my age and below, wouldnt normally be able to afford everything that was required for the hobby.

 

[Fella]

If you are under the age of 16, realistically where can you find the money to look after a fish properly? Afford a tank greater than 10g (the floor limit for most reasonable fish), afford the medications that may need to be administered within 24hours notice, food, water conditioner for water changes, accessories etc? How will you transport these things?

I know not many teenagers are in my position, but I have been developing & selling websites and domains for over 3 years now, and started at just 13. This has easily funded my hobby, and any pocket money I recieve just gets added to my bank acount for future expenses. Luckily, I have never had a problem with finding money, but I understand most children of my age and below, wouldnt normally be able to afford everything that was required for the hobby.

it's good to hear that you're in a strong position, but like you say yourself, you're in the minority rather than majority right?

 

[OohFeeshy]

If you are under the age of 16, realistically where can you find the money to look after a fish properly? Afford a tank greater than 10g (the floor limit for most reasonable fish), afford the medications that may need to be administered within 24hours notice, food, water conditioner for water changes, accessories etc? How will you transport these things?

My meagre amount of pocket money, working around the house, the job I have at my school covering/stamping books and delivering them around the school. Saving all my money from birthdays and Christmas. Not buying other stuff like CDs, sweets, magazines, alchol, drugs and cigarettes. Transport, carry what I can, with a large tank hitch a lift off the father.

 

[geo7x]

My meagre amount of pocket money, working around the house, the job I have at my school covering/stamping books and delivering them around the school. Saving all my money from birthdays and Christmas. Not buying other stuff like CDs, sweets, magazines, alchol, drugs and cigarettes. Transport, carry what I can, with a large tank hitch a lift off the father.

Same here Oofeeshy, you got it in one, saving is the key its got to be good practice.

 

[Fella]

But do you think you're in the majority?


And you make my point that your parents are aware of your fishkeeping and are willing to support it. This isn't the same of all people who purchase fish aged 16 or under.

 

[OohFeeshy]

Indeed, but as I said earlier, I'm not protesting against any legislation (the shops I regularly go to know me well enough to say stuff that law), but at the blanket statements that 'unde 16 year olds can't/shouldn't be able to care for pets on their own' or similar stuffe.

 

[KathyM]

I didn't say "under 16 year olds", I said "children" which is technically anyone under the age of 18.

You have your parents backing - the only way upping the legal age would affect anyone is if they didn't.

I'm still unsure as to why the age of 16 is being used as a "template" on this thread - the law say kids can buy pets at 12, which in my opinion is disgraceful.

I breed my african land snails - which sounds completely unrelated but similar in care level - and I don't (and won't) sell to children. Those children are most welcome to go to their parents and come back to me with them showing they have researched what they're doing and that the parents will take ultimate responsibility. If the parents won't take the responsibility they don't get the snails, easy as that - it's about the animal's welfare not the child's wants. I'm unsure of the legal age of being able to enter into a contract, but that's another concern.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

I didn't say "under 16 year olds", I said "children" which is technically anyone under the age of 18.

You have your parents backing - the only way upping the legal age would affect anyone is if they didn't.

I'm still unsure as to why the age of 16 is being used as a "template" on this thread - the law say kids can buy pets at 12, which in my opinion is disgraceful.

I breed my african land snails - which sounds completely unrelated but similar in care level - and I don't (and won't) sell to children. Those children are most welcome to go to their parents and come back to me with them showing they have researched what they're doing and that the parents will take ultimate responsibility. If the parents won't take the responsibility they don't get the snails, easy as that - it's about the animal's welfare not the child's wants. I'm unsure of the legal age of being able to enter into a contract, but that's another concern.

Although the law states that, I have found many chain stores, and indeed all but one of the LFS in my area don't sell to anyone under the age of 16.. I think thats to avoid angry parents coming in and trying to get a refund for unwanted pets bought by their son or daughter!

 

[OohFeeshy]

You have your parents backing - the only way upping the legal age would affect anyone is if they didn't.

Not really though. Just becasue the law/the shop says one thing, doesn't mean thats what they do- take again my example of 14 year olds buying alcohol even though they don't exactly look mature and have no ID. Besides which, I don't exactly have my parents backing- no way do they want to hang around in lfs's when I want to buy fish. If they come at all.

I'm still unsure as to why the age of 16 is being used as a "template" on this thread - the law say kids can buy pets at 12, which in my opinion is disgraceful.

Something like because may be raised to 16. I can't remember.

 

[geo7x]

But do you think you're in the majority?

nope hence earlier in this topic i said that i am totally for the restriction i easily see how most people my age are right pains in the............backside (its a family forum )