Kids Right's, Fish Rights...

Indeed, but any pocket money is almost always a nessecity for everyone under 16. The only job available is generally a paper round- rubbish wages, rubbish hours- so often no way of getting any income. Come out of their wallets maybe, but it's a much better and cheaper alternative then parents paying outright for any items wanted.

And, really and honestly, adults think they know best too ;)
 
Edited to add: My son goes up to secondary school this week. Chocolate/sweets and fizzy pop are banned in that school, and that's something I back too.

That's the idea, banned. No law needed, personal responsibility on the part of the school, parents, and taxpayers who fund the school, if it's a public school.
Sorry to disappoint you but it is a law, or at least a government mandate type thing. It also extends to nutritional values of school dinners and personally I think it's a brilliant thing.

I agree that if you make too many things a law then people get mollycoddled, however at the moment our NHS (National Health Service) has to deal with a lot of overweight people, if this can be solved (or even helped) simply by encouraging good food at school then I'm all for it.

I'm also all for the idea that if I have kids and send them to school with dinner money that they'll be able to buy a nutritionally balanced meal with out lots of salt, fat and reprocessed meat. Chips are fine every now and then but not 5 times a week!

Alternatively (from bash.org)
The problem is stupidity. I'm not saying there should be a capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?
 
I think it's a good law, even if it isn't fair to some people, even though it's not really fair to a lit of kids. Perhaps it would be better if kids under 16 could get some kind of permit (with parental consent) that would allow them buy pets.
 
On that note, I don't think schools selling sweets etc. and high fat meals has anything at all to do with overweight kids. I'm fat but I don't buy sweets at school, nor do I often have school lunches (and if I do, it's fish and chips on Fridays and jacket potato the rest of the week). I hate any foods that are really fatty, and I especially cannot bear processed foods. Why buy a bag of chicken nuggets with 40% mechanicaly reclaimed chicken when you can cook honey and thyme roasted chicken breast with muchrooms, carrots and rice noodles?


Also note that the Government does far more to stop unhealthy food than it does to stop smoking and drinking alcohol... They know where their pocket money comes from :lol:
 
Ultimately, the people who own the house have the right to determine whether pets are allowed. I'm 23, just out of college, and living under my parent's roof, and I still checked with them before bringing an aquarium into the house.
 
On that note, I don't think schools selling sweets etc. and high fat meals has anything at all to do with overweight kids. I'm fat but I don't buy sweets at school, nor do I often have school lunches (and if I do, it's fish and chips on Fridays and jacket potato the rest of the week). I hate any foods that are really fatty, and I especially cannot bear processed foods. Why buy a bag of chicken nuggets with 40% mechanicaly reclaimed chicken when you can cook honey and thyme roasted chicken breast with muchrooms, carrots and rice noodles?


Also note that the Government does far more to stop unhealthy food than it does to stop smoking and drinking alcohol... They know where their pocket money comes from :lol:


I just used the food/weight thing off the top of my head. I'll bet video games & computers have just as much to do with it. Kids need more exersize, if junior has a 55 & a 5 gallon bucket, some water changes are a good workout. :)
 
I worked part time when I was 15 onwards - every weekend to start with, then when I turned 16 I worked every afternoon after school, and Saturdays too. Still had to check with my parents before getting a pet, and in my case, I never got one! That's probably why I've got so many now...

It's not just about responsibility and capability - it's about respect for your parents.

And as for adults thinking they know better too - that's because we do! We've been there, done that, bought the t-shirt and lived with the consequences. In my case teenage pregnancy - I must add I had moved out and was in a long term relationship - but I thought I knew best and ended up spending my 18th birthday pregnant, and being seriously skint for many years. I thought I knew best though - and I was wrong. Age brings you more than a drivers license - it brings wisdom and experience.

Not quite the same as fish, but you get the gist of it...
 
It's not just about responsibility and capability - it's about respect for your parents.

Right, but respect deosn't mean having to have them trailing after you in fish shops in case you want to buy something. Doesn't do either you or them any good, more likely to make them annoyed, angry, etc.


And as for adults thinking they know better too - that's because we do!

Exactly my point :lol: You just think you do, and you're not generally prepared to accept otherwise :lol:
 
And as for adults thinking they know better too - that's because we do!

That statement is completely untrue, especially when you are talking about keeping fish as pets. I know many more people that are under 16, which are by far better fishkeepers than adults I know. Along with everything, a 15 year old maybe more mature than a out of control late teen (18-22) or even older.
 
And as for adults thinking they know better too - that's because we do!

That statement is completely untrue, especially when you are talking about keeping fish as pets. I know many more people that are under 16, which are by far better fishkeepers than adults I know. Along with everything, a 15 year old maybe more mature than a out of control late teen (18-22) or even older.


But she's not talking about whether adults know more about fish. She's saying adults (those that are good parents) know what's best for the household and for their kids.

I don't know a damn thing about say for example, lizards. I still wouldn't allow a 12 year old child to buy one without my permission.

Fishophile had it down to a tee - it's about who runs the house. I'll add to that that it's also about a child's respect for who runs the house. If the child wants to make the decisions about pets with no thought to the parent's wishes - they maybe should think about who pays the rent/mortgage, who buys the food, who pays the bills and ultimately who squeezed them into the world. :lol:
 
I am convinced not so much by the responsibility argument (after all, we know some very responsible young people on this forum) as by the landlord argument.

It does not help if you are the most responsible pet keeper in the world if your fish are going to be evicted half an hour after purchase by an irate landlord (=parent).

Some adults are bound by similar restriction, of course: not all flats, colleges, housing associations etc allow pets. Still, this is fairly rare: most adults are in charge of their own accommodation.

On the other hand, virtually all under 16's are dependent on an adult for house room; therefore, this adult is necessarily going to have a lot of power over what goes in the house. It is therefore a sensible precaution to check with the adult; otherwise, shops might spend a lot of time taking tanks back, which is going to lose them money.
 
IM only 15 and i started my 10 gallon tank when i was just 14 and i have succesfully keep endlers,guppies, cherry shrimp and discus(in a different tank of course) and lots of plants plants but i think its a really good law like if the kids really wanted fish they would get adults to buy them and if they only wanted a cheap laugh with fish they wouldnt
 
The main points i have brought up myself in this topic which i still stand by, as well as other people's points which i agree with too are;

a. The vast majority of under 16's live with their parents, i.e. under someone else's roof, and thus i believe that you should abide by their rules. And if your parents havn't given you permission to have an aquarium or don't want you to, i think thats very reasonable and you should respect your parents or house owner's wishes.
There are many kids who will more than happily use emotional blackmail or lies to get what they want off their parents, but i think this is a totally unresponsable way to start your hobby.

b. Owning pets can be very difficulty when trying to move out of home- as i have noted before, i know people even on this forum who are unable to move out of home because the majority of landlords do not accept animals, and few will accept something like 6 fish tanks or a load of cats and other animals etc.
Thus i think the best time to get a pet is when you have found somewhere to rent that will allow to have pets- even so though, renting a place may not be permanent and you may still have to move out at some point and have to find another place all over again that will accept you and your animals.

c. Thirdly, many Uni's do not accept any animals at all. Some of the fish i currently own originally belonged to a friend of mine who had to give them up because he wanted to go to Uni and could not take his fish with him. If any of you decide to further your education after you leave school or college, what will you do if no Uni will accept your fish? Where will your fish go?

d. It is quite difficult for under 16's to get proper work/jobs to pay fr their hobby- thus most under 16's rely heavily on their parents financially supporting their hobby. Thus i think it is only fair if you take your parent to the lfs to see what exactly you are wanting them to buy.

e. Many of us make mistakes when we start out in the hobby, and one of the most common newbie mistakes is buying unsuitable fish, in particular tank-busting ones. Many people, by the time they have found out what horrors or sizes their fish will grow into, have already become too emotionally attached to their fish to take them back to the shop.

I currently know members on this forum who have such problems and currently cannot do anything about upgrading their tanks for their fish because their parents will not allow them large enough tanks or are not willing to fork out the money for say, a 100gallon tank. I mean, who many under 16's do you know can afford such a tank or are in the right circumstances to keep one??

f. Many under 16's live and abide by their parents rules. But what if you come across the scenario where your parents want to go on a 5 week holiday and are taking you with them? Who looks after your fish? What will happen to them? At least when you are an adult and living independantly, you can choose your own holidays according to what fits your lifestyle best.
I am going on a holiday in about 9-8 weeks time for 10days and i have someone to look after my fish. But if i was living at home and much younger and had to come with my mother on holiday for a very long period of time, there would be nobody to look after my pets. You cannot deny your parents holidays just because you decided to take up fishkeeping!



The law is there to protect the fish, and i think that given the above factors to take into consideration, this is a very reasonable law and does help protect many fish from doomed fates.
There is of course the responsability arguement, although i think that works both ways to be much of a deciding factor on either side of the debate- thus is think it is circumstances and situation that an under or over 16 year old is likely to face or have that are most important.
 
a. The vast majority of under 16's live with their parents, i.e. under someone else's roof, and thus i believe that you should abide by their rules.

Very true, but unless you are unlucky enough to share a room with a sibling (and haven't got around to selling them off as a chimmney sweep yet), your bedroom is still your space whether it's in a house owned by you or not. You get to choose your own decorating scheme, your own furniture (generally), whatever other objects you keep in your room (ie,TVs video players etc) generally as long as you buy it.

b. Owning pets can be very difficulty when trying to move out of home- as i have noted before, i know people even on this forum who are unable to move out of home because the majority of landlords do not accept animals, and few will accept something like 6 fish tanks or a load of cats and other animals etc.
Thus i think the best time to get a pet is when you have found somewhere to rent that will allow to have pets- even so though, renting a place may not be permanent and you may still have to move out at some point and have to find another place all over again that will accept you and your animals.

Yes, but that situation applies to everyone, regardless of age. So really that isn't a valid arguement IMO.

c. Thirdly, many Uni's do not accept any animals at all. Some of the fish i currently own originally belonged to a friend of mine who had to give them up because he wanted to go to Uni and could not take his fish with him. If any of you decide to further your education after you leave school or college, what will you do if no Uni will accept your fish? Where will your fish go?
As above really- just because the fish might have to find a different home if you decide to go to uni, why should that mean that you aren't allowed to have any pets of your own? The situation could still well apply to adult, who probably have mroe fish, tanks etc- what about where their fish will go if they move house and can't take them with them? When/if I'm in that situation, any I can take will come with me. The rest will have no shortage of homes to go to, I'm sure- fully grown oddballs and rare catfish aren't often left unwanted, even if it does mean a bit of traveling.

d. It is quite difficult for under 16's to get proper work/jobs to pay fr their hobby- thus most under 16's rely heavily on their parents financially supporting their hobby. Thus i think it is only fair if you take your parent to the lfs to see what exactly you are wanting them to buy.
But most under 16's rely on their parents for everything. Anything they want to buy, you could argue, comes out of their parents pocket in some way, unless they have a job, but generally those who use their pocket money on hobbies like fish spend far less on other rubbish teenagers buy, like cigarettes, drugs, alcohol, CD's, sweets etc. It actually is very beneficial IMO to have to save up for things like that you want or need- you are less likely to buy things you don't need or want when you are older and have an income of your own. I personally now buy any food I want when I go out shopping, so if I want something decent to eat instead of the frozen rubbish my mum normally buys I've paid for it out of my own pocket.

e. Many of us make mistakes when we start out in the hobby, and one of the most common newbie mistakes is buying unsuitable fish, in particular tank-busting ones. Many people, by the time they have found out what horrors or sizes their fish will grow into, have already become too emotionally attached to their fish to take them back to the shop.
But this doesn't apply to the arguement at all. Are you saying under 16's should be able to buy fish on their own in case they buy, say, a RTC? Rubbish. How the hell are parents supposed to know or care how big a fish grows? Adults are probably more likely to buy tankbusters anyway, kids who buy their own fish are unlikely to spend their hard saved cash on a fish they know nothing about.


f. Many under 16's live and abide by their parents rules. But what if you come across the scenario where your parents want to go on a 5 week holiday and are taking you with them? Who looks after your fish? What will happen to them? At least when you are an adult and living independantly, you can choose your own holidays according to what fits your lifestyle best.

What about if the said independant adult wants to go on a 5 week holiday? Not many people are gonig to deny themselves breaks becasue of their fish. It's plenty easy to find people to look after them- plenty of nitrate absorbing stuff around if ned be, or if not, only two or so water changes are nessecary, there are automatic feeders, gadgets that make water changes easier if need be... It's not rocket science.




The law is there to protect the fish, and i think that given the above factors to take into consideration, this is a very reasonable law and does help protect many fish from doomed fates.

That is 100% not true. If anything, the law is there to protect all the fluffy animals- the law doesn't give a damn about fish. If it did, dying fish would have been made illegal aeons ago, laws would be put into place to stop cruelty like goldfish in bowls, the RSPCA wouldn't write such utter tosh in it's books like it did about the stocking of a 20g. The point still stands- how many shops, if it is put into place, are going to take the blindest bit of notice?
 

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