Kids Right's, Fish Rights...

[Fishkeeper2004]

No, you are wrong. It is your parent's space, they own it, they decide what happens to it. Whether they have chosen to let you have it as you please is not relevant, they can take it away as quickly as they gave it. You may think they would never do that, and they may never- but you have no influence at all over whether that happens or not.

Actually, that doesn't apply to everyone. I have a lock on my door, and my mum tells me as long as I don't get silly, I can buy anything I want for my room. It's my own personal space, and my Mum nor Dad have anything to do with it. I do all the cleaning, all the decorating etc etc. I can do what I want with my room.

 

[FishEnthusiast]

When I was a child and living at home I wanted a rabbit. My mom said no so I didn't get one. I also wanted a turtle, again she said no. Then I wanted fish. Again she said no. Had I gone to the store and bought any of these animals my mother would have turned me right around, marched me back to the store and demanded I return the animals. She then would have given the store holy you know what for selling said animals to a child.

For this reason alone I agree whole heartedly with the lfs not selling fish to children with out parental permission. Whether the teens on this board want to admit it or not their parents are ultimately responsible for their children's' actions. Also, in Canada at least, one can not legally enter into a contract until they are 18. Buying a fish(or any animal) is entering into a contract and if the fish is sold to someone under age the parents are the ones ultimately entering into a contract. In essence they are completely liable for any actions resulting from the purchase.

I am not so far removed from my childhood that I have forgotten what it is like to have no power at all, and the frustration that results. However years of living on my own have taught me that my mother was completely right in saying no to all my purchases. And as an adult I have fish, and cats and a rabbit too. While I don't think children should not have pets, I do believe the pets should be accepted into the family home as a family responsibility. Like a former poster said it is not easy to find homes that will allow you to keep multiple fish tanks. What would you do with the tanks when you decided to move out from your parent's home? If suitable housing can't be found your parents will be left with the responsibility. If you have already had parental consent to have the fish in the first place your parents are more likely to take care of the fish after you have left rather than flush them down the toilet.

And to address I believe it was oohfeeshy(correct me if I am wrong) who said who would choose to move to a smaller house where you couldn't keep all your tanks. Sometimes life throws you curve balls and your economic situation forces you to "downgrade". Moving to a smaller house is rarely planned or anticipated and having to choose to give up pets in order to put food on the table is an agonizing one. It does happen though, usually when you least expect it.

 

[OohFeeshy]

The point is, that as a child you have no power at all. You cannot control anything at all about your circumstances, whether you think you can or not. Any control you think you have is an illusion, you control what your parents allow you to control

There are things parents have no control over whether they like it or not. I control if I die of my own free will, for example. Morbid but true.

We can pussy foot around this all day, but the truth of the matter is that as a child you do not have the authority or the power, to enter into the commitment of caring for a living creature without the assistance of adults.

I can enter into that commitment with no adult assistance. Walk or take the bus (using money earnt from my job) to a lfs, buy a tank and extras (with my wages), buy fish (with my wages), walk, bus or taxi home (with my wages) and clone the tank. Simple.

Sorry if that sounds harsh to any under 16 yr olds, but that is how it is if you are honest. Don't worry though, you'll get your chance, and with the power comes a whole load of grief.

You can certainly make it plain you're not under 16 Why should I worry anyway? I can buy all the fish I want, and since most of them probably need someone to go and get me one specially i'm pretty much done with lfs's. Bring on the online wholesaler.

And BTW, you seem to completely forget that many of the most knowledgable members are under 16, and most of the newbies are adults.

And to address I believe it was oohfeeshy(correct me if I am wrong) who said who would choose to move to a smaller house where you couldn't keep all your tanks.

I think it was catxx. Although it was more of a 'you wouldn't choose, you'd be forced to go there, or similar.

 

[Jules H-T]

Actually, that doesn't apply to everyone.

Yes it does!

I have a lock on my door, and my mum tells me as long as I don't get silly, I can buy anything I want for my room.

Exactly my point. So the state of your room is as it is because your Mum says it can be provided you don't get silly. Your Mum has the power over your room! She has given permission for you to do what you like with it, with conditions. She has given, but she can take away. Who gave you the lock? Get my point?

You are not responsible for the house or it's contents, your parents Mum is. That is a fact. She may have delegated some responsibility to you, but if you started fire spinning in there or keeping killer bees we'd soon see who had the authority.

It's my own personal space, and my Mum nor Dad have anything to do with it.

Because your parents choose for it to be that way. You have no choice but to do as they say, even if that sinply means generally staying within the boundaries of not going silly.

Fair play to them for trusting you with the responsibility you have been given, and fair play to you for being good with it. Acknowledge the fact though- things are as they are because your parents permit it.

@ furry rabbit, I understand, it wasn't that long ago I was ducking about doing stuff I shouldn't (well, it was, but I'm kidding myself that it wasn't). However, that's not the point.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

Actually, that doesn't apply to everyone.

Yes it does!

I have a lock on my door, and my mum tells me as long as I don't get silly, I can buy anything I want for my room.

Exactly my point. So the state of your room is as it is because your Mum says it can be provided you don't get silly. Your Mum has the power over your room! She has given permission for you to do what you like with it, with conditions. She has given, but she can take away. Who gave you the lock? Get my point?

You are not responsible for the house or it's contents, your parents Mum is. That is a fact. She may have delegated some responsibility to you, but if you started fire spinning in there or keeping killer bees we'd soon see who had the authority.

It's my own personal space, and my Mum nor Dad have anything to do with it.

Because your parents choose for it to be that way. You have no choice but to do as they say, even if that sinply means generally staying within the boundaries of not going silly.

Fair play to them for trusting you with the responsibility you have been given, and fair play to you for being good with it. Acknowledge the fact though- things are as they are because your parents permit it.

@ furry rabbit, I understand, it wasn't that long ago I was ducking about doing stuff I shouldn't (well, it was, but I'm kidding myself that it wasn't). However, that's not the point.

Yes I understand your point. All I'm saying is, I'm in the position where I can go out and buy a tank without consulting my mum, as long as i have sufficient space for it. Yes, they have the overall power, but all I'm saying is if I don't get silly, I am free to do what I like. But I understand, my mum does have the power over me.

 

[Jules H-T]

The point is, that as a child you have no power at all. You cannot control anything at all about your circumstances, whether you think you can or not. Any control you think you have is an illusion, you control what your parents allow you to control

There are things parents have no control over whether they like it or not. I control if I die of my own free will, for example. Morbid but true.

Only because your parents give you a long enough leash, if we're being pedantic. They could choose to have you under lock and key, 24hr surveilance and there would be nothing you could do about it. Granted they won't- but don't kid yourself that it's because you choose it to be that way.

We can pussy foot around this all day, but the truth of the matter is that as a child you do not have the authority or the power, to enter into the commitment of caring for a living creature without the assistance of adults.

I can enter into that commitment with no adult assistance. Walk or take the bus (using money earnt from my job) to a lfs, buy a tank and extras (with my wages), buy fish (with my wages), walk, bus or taxi home (with my wages) and clone the tank. Simple.

No, you are not correct. Until you are paying for the roof over your own head and the electricity in your plugs you are relying on your parents providing those things. Right? How are you going to look after a fish tank with no roof over your head and no electricity? You can't. Your ability to sustain your fish is entirely dependant on your parents. Right, or not? You therefore do not have the power to make the decision to keep fish with any authority beyond that which is given to you by your parents. Agreed?

Sorry if that sounds harsh to any under 16 yr olds, but that is how it is if you are honest. Don't worry though, you'll get your chance, and with the power comes a whole load of grief.

You can certainly make it plain you're not under 16 Why should I worry anyway? I can buy all the fish I want, and since most of them probably need someone to go and get me one specially i'm pretty much done with lfs's. Bring on the online wholesaler.

Well exactly. If your parents are cool enough to let you get away with that then fine. However, this is about the law in general, not anyone's particular situation.

And BTW, you seem to completely forget that many of the most knowledgable members are under 16, and most of the newbies are adults.

Until you are 100% totally self sufficient, you do not have the power to keep a pet. Therefore, it is adjudged that you should not have the power to buy a pet.

You need your parents help to keep the pet- you need your parents help to enter into the commitment to do so.

Makes perfect sense.

Yes I understand your point. All I'm saying is, I'm in the position where I can go out and buy a tank without consulting my mum, as long as i have sufficient space for it. Yes, they have the overall power, but all I'm saying is if I don't get silly, I am free to do what I like. But I understand, my mum does have the power over me.

And that's cool Fishkeeper. All this law is for, is to make the person selling the fish be forced to confirm that you have the permission from your parents.

It's not to prevent youngsters from owning fish, just to set it within a sensible context. As has been said all along by young and old, there are some exceptional young fishkeepers on here, and no-one would want to deny them their fish.

 

[starrynightxxi]

Until you are eighteen, your parents are legally responsible for everything you do except in rare cases of emancipation. If you screw up, it's their fault and they pay.

Also, you only have pocket money to spend because you are being provided for by your parents. You aren't paying $250-$500 a month in rent, not including electricity, cable/internet, sewage, water, and gas (heating), not to mention buying food every week or so, and gas and insurance for your car so that you CAN get from place to place. There's health insurance to be concerned about as well. And you may even have to pay an extra fee for having pets in a rented space. "Pocket money" won't even begin to cover these things. Enjoy it while you can.

 

[KathyM]

I find it quite amazing , it seems many of the adults on this forum went straight from twelve to twenty .

And jules , I don't only do what my parents allow - if they only knew .................... .

Nope. I went from 17 to "grown up" in the space of 9 months. I became a mum. You know why? Because I thought I knew it all too, and that my mum and dad were making life difficult on purpose, not to protect me. And because, like many horrible teenagers of that age, I thought I knew better, and that I was grown up. Boy does it sink in how wrong you are when you're forced to become a grown up too early!

I'll tell you what I see on this thread. I see a lot of children arguing that they're not children.

OooFeeshy, as a child says he hates children. He also meanders around using the threat of suicide to get his own way. We all did that. We all thought it was the end of the world when we couldn't have something grown ups could have. We all thought we were responsible, and we all thought we knew best. We all thought we could manipulate the world.

It's only when you grow up that you realise what a git you were as a teenager, and how your parents were generally right all along (and sadly eventually, that your parents make mistakes too as they're human). One day, each and every one of us has some kind of enlightening, really scary experience where we wish we'd listened.

But back to the original debate - people need to remember this law doesn't just cover fish, it covers other pets that require much higher responsibilities too. A 12 year old just isn't mature enough to go out and buy any animal.

 

[Fishkeeper2004]

To be honest making the legal age for buying animals to 16+ wouldn't make much different. Out of about 6 LFS that I visit, only one of them serves under 16's livestock. It's just general store policy around this area, not sure whether it's the same elsewhere, but I would have thought so..

 

[OohFeeshy]

OooFeeshy, as a child says he hates children.

She. (you would think that some people would be mature and responsible enough to check the gender option )And indeed, I do. Although mainly children under ten years old, if they're older they're not too bad.

He also meanders around using the threat of suicide to get his own way.

Threat of suicide? I think not. That was the first thing against the 'your younger than 16 you can't do anything' arguement I could think of.

But back to the original debate - people need to remember this law doesn't just cover fish, it covers other pets that require much higher responsibilities too. A 12 year old just isn't mature enough to go out and buy any animal.

Although the law won't cover inverts, so a 12 year old can still go and buy snails, stick insects, cockroaches, crabs, lobsters, spiders, crickets, worms, millipedes, locusts, assasin bugs, ants, praying mantids, and a whole host of other critters. Burning ants with a magnifying glass anyone?

 

[CFC]

As a teenager i found myself in the position of living alone at the age of 15, i wont go into details as not everyone here needs to know about my past but after an incident i was no longer welcome in the family home and was placed under social care. Being not too far from my 16th birthday it was decided i was too old to be placed into a childrens home and was placed into a young persons hostel where i had a small room with a shared kitchen and bathroom paid for by the council and had daily visits from a social worker until i was 16, i also received the sum of £27 a week bridging allowance with which i had to feed myself, pay travel expenses and clothe myself. Being of school going age i also had to attend school as part of the agreement so was unable to take proper employment but i did have a Saturday job which paid me an additional £15 a week. To be quite honest i struggled to live on the combined total of £42 a week and there would have been no way i could have afforded to keep any pets let alone fish.
After turning 16 i left education and took full time employment, which meant having to move from the hostel, over the next 6 years i lived hand to mouth barely affording the rent and bills in the various flats i rented, i could not physically afford to keep a fish tank until i was 22 when i got my very first tank, despite having had an interest in tropical fish since i had been a young child.

Anyone out of full time employment who thinks they could afford to keep a pet without parental help is kidding themselves, so why should any one below the legal age of being able to take full time employment be able to make the commitment of buying a pet without the consent of the people who are ultimately paying for its upkeep in one way or another?

 

[furryrabbit]

Ok , think about this ; An adult shopkeeper keeps bettas in a cup , and sells fish that have been dyed with ink . How many under 16's do you know who do this ? Age doesn't make anyone more apt at fishkeeping , research does .

 

[tetraman]

I'm 12 and I'm completely responsible for all of my fish. I certainly know a lot and I am disguisted that people think I would abuse an animal.

EDIT - Since I'm only 12 I haven't lost my nosiness, CFC. Tell me your story. I like that kind of story, too, since my family adopted a 6 (now 7) year old from a dump town far to the southeast of Russia, right of the border of China and not too far east of Mongolia. The small city is called Birobidjan (that's just a lame sound out job) and you may see it on large world maps. His name was Maksim (or Maxim, depending on the document) Surgavich Kuluv. Well, let's here your story!

 

[CFC]

You have a goldfish in a 1 gallon bowl and a shoaling tetra kept on its own in another 1 gallon bowl, how on earth you can claim to be responsible toward your fish is beyond me

 

[tetraman]

About that. First, my friend heard I got a fish tank and dropped off his. His emerald catfish were fine, but he gave me this Hulk of a buenos aires tetra that bullied all of my other fish. And you need not worry about the goldfish since I put the water levels too high and he jumped out last night.