Jewel cichlid injuring other large cichlid

[yellowstitch123]

Hi

This is my first time posting although I have been keeping fish for about 8 years and in the last two years have started keeping south african cichlids.

In my current big tank (76g, 350l) I have a few south american cichlids. A chocolate cichlid who is about 4 inches, two young jewel cichlids about 2.5 - 3 inches, a severum probably about 4 inches and a fully grown inca stone cichlid. There are also two bristlenose plecs in there. Peace and harmony within the tank, no issues.

I was temporarily caring for an acara for a friend who is fairly placid, I agreed to take him providing that everyone got on. This was temporary whilst they had to run down their tank then set up again. Had no issues and acara went at the weekend. To catch him I had to remove most of the decor from the tank but it all went back in quickly.

Since removing the acara, the chocolate cichlid (who was previously reasonably quiet) started "trying his luck" a little bit, a little bit nippy with the sev but not to a point where it was concerning. Left the inca alone due to size.
Yesterday evening I saw the cichlid at the back of the tank and I thought he was dead due to lack of movement. He was not dead, but has had a real number done on him. None of the other fish are remotely injured and are all acting as normal with each other.

I have added in additional cover for the injured fish and dosed the tank up with melafix. It has been over 24 hours now and he's still doing ok minus looking like he's lost a bad fight. Other fish are still ok.

I'm really baffled as to what has happened. One of the jewels looks like it has coloured up a lot more specifically in the last couple of days as has got a little bit wary of the other jewel, but no fighting as such, although I am keeping a very close eye on them. If the chocolate cichlid tries to come out of his spot then it is the brighter coloured jewel that puts him straight back there, so I can only assume it's him that has caused the injuries.

I know that jewels can be aggressive but this is the only significant change towards any of the fish, I'm wondering if the chocolate tried his luck with the jewel like he did the sev and the jewel, being provoked, attacked him? But I'm not really sure what has triggered the change in both of them.

I'd love for them to be able to get on in the same tank again but appreciate that may not be the case. May have to set up a separate tank for one of them but not sure if that will be possible, in which case I'd need to rehome one. I can't transfer him to my smaller tank unfortunately.

I guess I'm just after some advice on why this may have happened and if I could make it work again. Would removing all of the decor to get a fish out have caused this to this extent?
Would it be worth setting up a hospital area in the current tank e.g. fry net blocked by plants?

 

[yellowstitch123]

Sorry I realise that I didn't put in my post that it is the chocolate cichlid that was injured, I presume by the jewel.

 

[GaryE]

You have 2 of the Western African jewels, and they may be pairing off. They are very tough fish, much tougher in general than South American Cichlids. They also speak a different language.

Yup, I said that.

Africa and the Americas drifted apart long enough ago that the means Cichlids use to communicate have drifted as well, and the two regions don't always read body language right. I don't know if it also extends to their chemical communication. But it does cause trouble. Your friend's fish probably upset the standard staredown, and the jewels have made their move for world domination (or maybe just to have a safe place to raise some kids). Chocolates can also have red on them, which doesn't help with a jewel.

 

[yellowstitch123]

It's strange as I did research jewels and ask in 3 different LFS about keeping jewels with south americans (as in all of the shops I visit, they are sold with them). This whole thing has led me to wonder why they aren't sold with more aggressive african cichlids. At the time I was toying with getting another inca but the general opinion was 2 jewels would do better than two incas, with the possibility of going down to one jewel in the future or having a breeding pair in a separate tank if they did pair up.

The jewel is still being absolutely fine with the other fish in the tank and I hope that that doesn't change. He is significantly smaller than the sev and the inca.

The second jewel is super quiet and generally co-habits well with all of the other fish. If the sev is interested in something, that jewel will usually move out of it's way. I have had this combo together for about 18 months with no prior issues so I am gutted, but things can change quickly with fish, especially cichlids.

Do you have any suggestions for re-establishing peace between the chocolate and jewel (if it was definitely the jewel, which I imagine it was)? If it's likely that the jewel may get lairy with other tankmates in the future then I may have to consider finding him another home as I don't have space for another tank. But it's only in the last 24 hours this has all kicked off and it looks like he may have been provoked by the chocolate.

 

[Alice B]

Is the 2nd jewel a female? I'm thinking a new aquarium with some filtration media from the old one might be a good idea. I never could get my jewels to breed, I think they were maybe not old enough, finally moved them to an african tank and they actually did well in there.

In my experience with cichlids it doesn't matter who started it, especially when breeding time approaches things can get very rough. I had some dwentis that were so peaceful, species tank, for a year or so and then the biggest male started clearing the tank of other males, I ended up having to give them to someone with more time to break up fights and more tanks to move fish to. I currently have Rams, only cichlids in my house, I can scrape up tank space for 10 gallon tanks as they pair off

 

[yellowstitch123]

I'm not 100% sure but I think it might be. I can try to get some pictures of them both for somebody to verify...I asked the shop for two females but think I might have got a male and a female.

 

[Alice B]

you definitely have one male, and if he isn't attacking the other jewel, it's probably a she.

 

[Back in the fold]

Last I heard Jewel Cichlids were pretty rough customers.

 

[yellowstitch123]

Yeah they are, I'm just gutted as this set up has been fine for 18 months. Trying to work out if I have can salvage the situation or if the jewels should go to their own tank (it might not be my tank which is sad).

 

[yellowstitch123]

Trying to come up with a plan, I am away next week with a house sitter in so I may need to think about moving fish this weekend as the sitter won't be able to...do you think I should move the jewels to another tank/rehome? I don't want to lose any other fish, really gutted to have lost the chocolate, but I especially don't want to lose the sev which I've had for a long time, or the inca as you don't come across those a lot.

 

[yellowstitch123]

Well I am being a bit pre-emptive, I haven't lost the chocolate and he might well recover, it has been over 24 hours now and if I was going to lose him I thought I would have already.

 

[Alice B]

do you have a tank divider?

 

[GaryE]

Jewels are not aggressive in the way African lake cichlids are. Hemichromis jewels are river fish from the complete other side of the continent to Malawis. They are extremely different beasts.

A 75 gallon is a big tank, but not for what you have. I have experience with jewels, having bred 3 different species from the group and kept a few others. They are insane, but so beautiful. For some odd reason you can't give the babies away....

If I were to use one of my 75s for Cichlids again, I would not crowd as you have. I would have one species in there. That's no one's rule but my own and plenty of people will disagree with me, but the one of this and that tank can get difficult, especially if there are 2 individuals of one species. Once cichlids pair (with the exception of mbuna) the need to defend territory takes over. It's nothing personal if they kill tankmates. Those fish should have swum off to their own room, which we know they can't..

 

[Wills]

Hi welcome to the forum

To catch him I had to remove most of the decor from the tank but it all went back in quickly.

I think this is the root of your problem, you've reset all of the territories essentially which will upset the hierarchy that will have been set over the last 18 months. Your fish will likely have been coming into or are well into sexual maturity vs 18 months ago which will also make things a bit harder - much easier to mix cichlids when young / smaller and let them grow up together. It's tough to say if it will settle down or if you might be better off changing the decor again? A tank divider sounds like a good idea either way though I think. You can get a few that attach with suction cups and the perspex slides in which works well or even just a piece of egg crate wedged in can do a good job.

It's strange as I did research jewels and ask in 3 different LFS about keeping jewels with south americans (as in all of the shops I visit, they are sold with them). This whole thing has led me to wonder why they aren't sold with more aggressive african cichlids. At the time I was toying with getting another inca but the general opinion was 2 jewels would do better than two incas, with the possibility of going down to one jewel in the future or having a breeding pair in a separate tank if they did pair up.

Jewels are often seen as on par with South Americans but its totally different, probably closer in temperament to Central Americans but Jewels are from softer water than Central Americans and much softer than the Rift Lakes. When you mix cichlids from around the world it is a bigger risk as they all display in different ways and also escalate aggression differently and its all hard-wired into their instincts and nature.

Cichlids are really hard to accurately judge but keeping them from one location can improve your odds. I'm not sure I've provided any solutions but hope thats helped!

Wills

 

[Back in the fold]

Yeah they are, I'm just gutted as this set up has been fine for 18 months. Trying to work out if I have can salvage the situation or if the jewels should go to their own tank (it might not be my tank which is sad).

I went and dug out my fish book and read up on these Jewel Cichlids and it was like I thought. They should be in their own aquarium. Certain times they aren’t spawning you might be OK but don’t bank on it.
It’s a shame they can’t behave all the time . They are very pretty.