I think I’ve messed up my first Cycle.. advice please

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ellamay

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I’m on day 19 of my first tank cycle. I think I’ve messed up. I’ve been using the advice on this forum to cycle my tank but I think I must’ve read somewhere else that if my ammonia was below 0 it would make the pH go down so I needed to make sure I’m adding more. And I think I’ve added ammonia for too many days in a row. I’m using DrTimms and my tank is 105l. So I just wanted some advice really. I’ve found it hard getting my head around all the doses and when to add it. My Nitrate is pretty high and Nitrite has been around 7 for almost a week.
** edit: the days I’ve added more ammonia is because it’s been at 0. It’s 0 every day unless I add some back in.
 

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You shouldn't add more ammonia until the level drops to .75 PPM, using the liquid test kit.

PH will fluctuate during a cycle, perfectly normal.
 
You shouldn't add more ammonia until the level drops to .75 PPM, using the liquid test kit.

PH will fluctuate during a cycle, perfectly normal.
My ammonia is 0 every day unless I add more. That’s where I got a bit confused because I was expecting it to take much longer to go down each time. I did use a filter boost which says it’s meant to promote healthy bacteria every other day for a week until my ammonia arrived so maybe that’s made a difference.
 
Are you adding 1/2 the amount of the original dose of ammonia?
Are you using the API liquid test kit?
 
You are not following the directions on this site for doing a fishless cyle. Nor are you following the directions for a fishkess cycle using One and Only on Dr. Tim's site either. Neither one of these directions suggests daily dosing of ammonia.

Ammonia does not affect the pH in a tank at the levels of fishless cycling and not because a tank is cycled. However, the cycle itself if acidic over time. This is due a small bit to nitrite and moreso to nitrate. In water they create acid. Nitrite creates some nitrous acid, which is a weak acid, nitrate creates nitric acid which is a stong acid. Additionally, the bacteria will use some of the carbonates and bicarbonates as their source of inorganic carbon. These are a big part of KH. As KH is used up, the buffering capacity it provides for pH lowers and this means the pH of the water can drop. Add acid now and down goes the pH.

Using Doctor Tim's properly (and assuming it was not killed by freezing or too much heat), it should take about a week, give or take a couple of days, to cycle a tank to hold full stocking.

The thing that most often stalls a cycle is to much nitrite. This is caused by too much ammonia. If you add up all the doses of ammonia listed in the fishless cycling article on this site, you will see it states that most people will get a tank cycled with between 6 and 7 additions of ammonia over about a 5 -6 week period. This assumes that no bacterial starter help is used and there are no live plants in the tank. If you look at the graph of the average cycle in the article here, you will see ammonia spends a fair amount of time at 0 ppm.

I can say for certain that if one follows the directions in the site article to the letter, one will get a tank cycled in the time frame given. If one uses Dr. Tim's One and Only and follows his directions to the letter, you will get a tank cycled in about a week. If you read his directions here, https://www.drtimsaquatics.com/resources/library/quick-guide-to-fishless-cycling-with-one-and-only/ you need to be aware of the fact that he uses the Nitrogen scale and most of us use the Total Ion scale on our test kits. So when he suggests ppm numbers, one needs to convert them from the nitrogen to the total ion scale.
NH3 = NH3-N * 1.21589
NH4 = NH4-N * 1.28786
NO2 = NO2-N * 3.28443
NO3 = NO3-N * 4.42664
Since the ammonia in tanks is mostly NH4, I suggest using a multiplication factor of 1.280. That means where the article on this site is using 3 ppm using the total ion scaleas the basic ammonia dosing level, Dr. Tim's 2 ppm would be measured as 2.56 ppm. However, on this site the is no bacteria being seeded. And as to where the nitrite level stalls a cycle, Dr. H. says not to exceed 5 ppm (on the nitrogen scale) which would read about 16.4 ppm on most hobby test kits.

Dosing instructions are pretty clear for either here or on Dr. Tim's and are based solely on one's actual test results. I believe the ones here are the clearer of the two. But I am slightly biased. Incidentally, the cycling article here is loosely based on Dr. Tim's directions for doing one without his One and Only. The big difference is the one here uses the total ion scale and is altered such that one need not do diluted testing for nitrite as it cannot reach the cycling stall level as long as onefollows the ammonia dosing instructions.

One last piece of advice. There is a lot of noise on the net. If you are going to follow the directions on any site, then do not mis them with what you read elsewhere. this only makes things more confusing. You would not follow the directions for adding sugar to an apple pie if you were making a cherry pie, would you? The same applies to any cycling method.
 
I’m on day 19 of my first tank cycle. I think I’ve messed up.
Yep, you may have messed up. No worries, we all mess up. I even put sugar in my cherry pies!

What I would do, massive water changes to get all readings down to zero. Stop using the filter boost. Dose your tank with ammonia one (1) time to a level of three (3) ppm. When your ammonia levels drop to zero, there is a very high probability that you have established bacteria colony for ammonia. Test for nitrites. If you are getting zero reading, there is a very high probability that you have established bacteria colony for nitrites.

I started with bacteria in a bottle and did the above three (3) times. I never saw any significant levels of nitrites which is great!

Most likely, your tank is filled with bacteria, time for a nice piece of apple pie!

Edit: You got high levels of nitrates, that's a good sign but just in case, test your tap water for nitrates just to be safe.
 
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@ellamay Have you read TwoTankAmin's sticky on how to do a fishless cycle

If you completely empty and refill the tank then follow this method you should be successful. The cycle will probably be quite fast as you've already grown some bacteria.
 
@ellamay Have you read TwoTankAmin's sticky on how to do a fishless cycle

If you completely empty and refill the tank then follow this method you should be successful. The cycle will probably be quite fast as you've already grown some bacteria.
I have yes, I tried to make my own notes on it so I could get my head around it a bit more but I've obviously done it wrong. It's my first tank. I'll empty and re fill it today, thank you :)
 
Yep, you may have messed up. No worries, we all mess up. I even put sugar in my cherry pies!

What I would do, massive water changes to get all readings down to zero. Stop using the filter boost. Dose your tank with ammonia one (1) time to a level of three (3) ppm. When your ammonia levels drop to zero, there is a very high probability that you have established bacteria colony for ammonia. Test for nitrites. If you are getting zero reading, there is a very high probability that you have established bacteria colony for nitrites.

I started with bacteria in a bottle and did the above three (3) times. I never saw any significant levels of nitrites which is great!

Most likely, your tank is filled with bacteria, time for a nice piece of apple pie!

Edit: You got high levels of nitrates, that's a good sign but just in case, test your tap water for nitrates just to be safe.
That's really helpful thank you. I knew I'd done it wrong but wasn't sure what to do about it. I'll change the water today and hopefully I'll have at least some of the bacteria! :)
 
We can talk you through the method if that would help.

Stage #1. Empty and refill the tank, then add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm after half an hour (to let the ammonia mix in thoroughly)
Test every third day till your readings are:
Ammonia below 0.75
Nitrite over 2.0

When you reach those numbers, report back :)
 
We can talk you through the method if that would help.

Stage #1. Empty and refill the tank, then add enough ammonia to get 3 ppm after half an hour (to let the ammonia mix in thoroughly)
Test every third day till your readings are:
Ammonia below 0.75
Nitrite over 2.0

When you reach those numbers, report back :)
I truly don't want to pick a fight with you nor do I want to make any enemies here, this is a happy place compared to political forums but..

If your tank already has a colony of nitrite eating bacteria (tank already cycled or bacteria in a bottle), you may not see any significant levels of nitrites. In this case, the lack of nitrites is evidence that your tank has establish the required colony of bacteria. Ellamay may be waiting another month looking for nitrites when her tank may already be cycled.

Mark
 
Yes, I agree, I was in a hurry when I wrote that, and forgot to add that if the tank has already grown a number of bacteria the cycle may proceed differently. I remembered I'd not said that while we were on the way to collect the cat food but forgot to edit my post after we got home :blush:

A tank is cycled when a 3 ppm dose of ammonia is cleared to zero ammonia and zero nitrite within 24 hours.
@ellamay I suggest emptying the tank and adding a 3 ppm dose of ammonia. Then test next day. This will tell you just how far you are in the cycle. There are a few possible readings after 24 hours -
  1. Most or all of ammonia still there and no nitrite means you are in the early stages.
  2. Some ammonia and some nitrite means you are on the way.
  3. A bit of ammonia and no nitrite means you already have a lot of bacteria, it's just a question of growing some more
  4. Zero ammonia and zero nitrite means the tank is cycled.

For #1 and #2, continue following the method on here.
For #3, wait till ammonia drops to zero, then add another 3 ppm and test next day.
For #4, the tank is ready for fish.
 
@Essjay I’ve got 0 ammonia (did 2 API test strips, I know the liquid test stuff is better but I can’t get hold of any at the moment), 4 nitrite and 40 nitrate. So according to the cycling advice on here, it’s time to add dose 2 as my ammonia is under 0.75 and nitrite is over 2?
 
@Essjay I’ve got 0 ammonia (did 2 API test strips, I know the liquid test stuff is better but I can’t get hold of any at the moment), 4 nitrite and 40 nitrate. So according to the cycling advice on here, it’s time to add dose 2 as my ammonia is under 0.75 and nitrite is over 2?
Correct, you will dose HALF the amount of the original dose.
 

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